On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Dan Mashal <dan.mashal@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Quote: "Simply because we want to make Fedora easier to use. For novice users, the kernel versions are just noise, they mean nothing, and probably cause a lot of confusion. Especially if they dual-boot, they wouldn't know what to choose, and might actually boot an older kernel regularly.
Furthermore, you can always revert to the current behaviour by simply editing some configuration files."If you wanted to make it easier for "novice users" then why do novice users have to do so much work out of the box to get stuff working? This is such a minor fix for "novice users".
Novice users will not need to change the configuration, it will work out of the box and will be easier to use. I see no reason to change the configuration, but in case some advanced users don't like this change, they can customize their boot menu as the see fit.
"Novice users" use Ubuntu. Think about why. I understand that Ubuntu and Fedora have different "religious" philosophies but this is reality without getting too in the the actual "religion" of FOSS and the 4 foundations of Fedora.
I disagree with you on that. If it is true, then we should just stop all UX design efforts we do, because all Fedora users are clearly experts. We can even drop the GUI, cause everyone who uses Fedora uses terminal commands all day.
Quote "Without release number? what if you have both Rawhide and 17 installed?
I think it should be Fedora $number"So a "novice user" would have Rawhide installed? :)
We want it to be usable both to novice and advanced users to use Fedora easily. having the release number won't mean anything unless you have multiple releases of Fedora
A novice user just wants it to "work" "out of the box".I mean it's really that simple.On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 12:09 AM, Elad Alfassa <elad@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 5:08 AM, Dan Mashal <dan.mashal@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Personal opinion from a longtime fedora user:
1) Why do I have to go to a separate menu to choose a different kernel? Granted, I don't often have to choose an older or custom kernel but "If it ain't broke don't fix it."
Simply because we want to make Fedora easier to use. For novice users, the kernel versions are just noise, they mean nothing, and probably cause a lot of confusion. Especially if they dual-boot, they wouldn't know what to choose, and might actually boot an older kernel regularly.
Furthermore, you can always revert to the current behaviour by simply editing some configuration files.2) It should just be "Fedora".
Without release number? what if you have both Rawhide and 17 installed?
I think it should be Fedora $number3) I don't like the way the grub menu looks right now with or without the theme. I like the old text non ubuntu/debian looking grub menu but that's just the oldskool person in me talking.
Well, I like how it looks with the theme, but if you don't like it you could always make your own theme to make it look like you want, or talk with upstream grub and explain to them why you think the default doesn't look good.
EOF
Dan
On Jun 19, 2012 1:07 AM, "Elad Alfassa" <elad@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Tue, Jun 19, 2012 at 10:21 AM, Máirín Duffy <duffy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi Elad,
>
> On Mon, 2012-06-18 at 18:07 +0300, Elad Alfassa wrote:
>> refer to this thread in -devel:
>> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-June/168712.html
>>
>> As I understand, by design, we wanted the older kernels to appear in
>> the "Advanced options" menu, but right now, it breaks every time you
>> run a kernel update.
>
> Yeh, it definitely sounds like broken behavior. Maybe we should get
> together with Josh Boyer and Peter Jones and see if we can't figure out
> some way to have older kernels go under the submenu.
>
>> Also, the string Fedora Linux is kinda wrong, cause the OS is called
>> Fedora.
>> It should be something like Fedora (with Linux kernel version here).
>
>> What is the stand of the design team on this?
>
> Well, fwiw, I think you're correct, it should just be 'Fedora' (Maybe
> Fedora + $RELEASE_NUMBER) not 'Fedora Linux.' However, I think the
> kernel versions should be in the submenu with, if I understand
> correctly, the older kernels listed out, but the newest one should just
> say Fedora. Is that too extreme?
Sounds reasonable. Show kernel versions only when they are really needed.
>
> ~m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> design-team mailing list
> design-team@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
--
-Elad Alfassa.
_______________________________________________
design-team mailing list
design-team@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
_______________________________________________
design-team mailing list
design-team@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
---Elad Alfassa.
_______________________________________________
design-team mailing list
design-team@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
_______________________________________________
design-team mailing list
design-team@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
--
-Elad Alfassa.
_______________________________________________ design-team mailing list design-team@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
