Asking the user what wallpaper they want on boot is obviously nonsense! Should we also ask them what colour icons they want or where the panels should be? How about the browser or the default email program? Where does it stop?
The job of a distribution is too decide on sensible defaults so the user doesn't have to. This is ridicolous!
Fab
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 6:57 PM, <emeka@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I think this is pretty easy, If GNOME 3.0 wallpaper must be there by
default, we could add in a new feature during bootup or just before a
users first login asking the user to choose between Fedora's Default
Wallpaper & GNOME 3.0 Default wallpaper. Here the user is King. Lets not
forget that GNOME's come a long way & we have some of our very own working
with them. Fedora has always been a platform for true open source
applications. Lets carry GNOME 3.0 along even though we could make
provisions for UNITY or even google chrome much later.
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: GNOME background in Fedora 15 (Onyeibo Oku)
> 2. Re: GNOME background in Fedora 15 (Martin Sourada)
> 3. Call For Papers - 2011 World Congress on Mathematics and
> Statistics (WCMS 2011)
> 4. Re: GNOME background in Fedora 15 (Nicu Buculei)
> 5. Re: GNOME background in Fedora 15 (Jaroslav Reznik)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 03:09:14 +0100
> From: Onyeibo Oku <twohotis@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [Design-team] GNOME background in Fedora 15
> To: Fedora Design Team <design-team@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Message-ID: <4D0D694A.7020109@xxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> On 12/19/2010 03:02 AM, Jim Campbell wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> 2010/12/18 M?ir?n Duffy <duffy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:duffy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
>>
>> On Sun, 2010-12-19 at 02:16 +0100, Martin Sourada wrote:
>> > No, no, you misunderstood. I don't imply we should ship to gnome
>> spins.
>> > We should either ship in F15 gnome as pristine as possible or
>> just do it
>> > they way we do it usually. Neither of these should of course
>> affect
>> > other spins and IMHO also not DVD install.
>>
>> Why? Again, you are proposing this all or nothing thinking and I
>> completely do not understand it. Can you please explain?
>>
>> > PS: I think we should slowly kill this thread, I'm running "out
>> of
>> > ammo", your arguments also haven't been strong enough to make me
>> change
>> > my mind and I wouldn't want to make this into a flame...
>>
>> We have to make a decision.
>>
>> ~m
>>
>>
>>
>> I think that the Fedora Project is in a good spot here in that the
>> default Gnome3 wallpaper is a shade of blue that coincides nicely with
>> the colors that Fedora uses anyway.
>>
>> The same cannot be said of OpenSUSE, though.
>>
>> Given the hubbub that is in Fedora where there isn't really a conflict
>> of colors, but other distros would likely have a conflict with the
>> colors, would upstream Gnome be willing to compromise on this? Would
>> upstream be willing to allow distros to create stripe-based wallpapers
>> that include the same design pattern, same degree of saturation, same
>> texture, etc., but use different distro-specific colors? After all,
>> could we really expect OpenSUSE to ship a blue theme? So much of their
>> artwork (website, icon set, metacity theme, etc.) is green. And I have
>> never seen a blue gecko. : (
>>
>> If we were able get a compromise like this, I think that there would be
>> greater likelihood of buy-in from the various the distros. They would be
>> representing and celebrating Gnome, but would retain key portions of
>> their own distro "self." Perhaps even Ubuntu would be willing to ship an
>> aubergine stripe-based theme as part of their wallpaper set (though, of
>> course, not as their default, as they are using Unity).
>>
>> This could also potentially benefit Gnome, as they could do something
>> like, "Different Colors, One Gnome," or something like that. The Gnome
>> brand identity could be visible in the stripes, while the distros get
>> their identity in the colors.
>>
>> Jim
>>
>
> That's what I thought too
> --
> Oku Onyeibo
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:twohot
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2010 10:40:15 +0100
> From: Martin Sourada <martin.sourada@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [Design-team] GNOME background in Fedora 15
> To: Fedora Design Team <design-team@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Message-ID: <1292751616.2356.178.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Sat, 2010-12-18 at 20:34 -0500, M?ir?n Duffy wrote:
>> On Sun, 2010-12-19 at 02:16 +0100, Martin Sourada wrote:
>> > No, no, you misunderstood. I don't imply we should ship to gnome
>> spins.
>> > We should either ship in F15 gnome as pristine as possible or just do
>> it
>> > they way we do it usually. Neither of these should of course affect
>> > other spins and IMHO also not DVD install.
>>
>> Why? Again, you are proposing this all or nothing thinking and I
>> completely do not understand it. Can you please explain?
>>
> Because I don't understand at all why change only the wallpaper. How
> does that help anyone. It's like doing something half-heartedly to me.
>
>> > PS: I think we should slowly kill this thread, I'm running "out of
>> > ammo", your arguments also haven't been strong enough to make me
>> change
>> > my mind and I wouldn't want to make this into a flame...
>>
>> We have to make a decision.
> Agreed. Seems to me like vote is the best option (probably FAS based as
> not everyone has time to attend an IRC meeting). As I already said,
> while I'm personally against granting this request, I wouldn't mind
> granting it if majority of our team is for it.
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 03:04:18 +0200
> From: "WCMS 2011" <admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [Design-team] Call For Papers - 2011 World Congress on
> Mathematics and Statistics
> To: design-team@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 09:21:59 +0200
> From: Nicu Buculei <nicu_fedora@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [Design-team] GNOME background in Fedora 15
> To: Fedora Design Team <design-team@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Message-ID: <4D0F0417.8020607@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
>
> On 12/17/2010 06:01 PM, Owen Taylor wrote:
>>
>> If the team doing the default Fedora desktop switched and did a GNOME
>> remix instead this cycle, who would do the default Fedora desktop?
>> (I'm sure you'd be happy to switch the default to KDE for this cycle,
>> but... ;-)
>
> Yes, if you do a remix, nobody will object on whatever branding you
> apply to it, as long as it is not our *default* download.
>
>> And how would we distinguish between the two different downloads when
>> presenting options to the user? We'd basically be offering the user the
>> choice between two different almost identical things because we couldn't
>> come to a decision.
>
> One is the default download, linked practically from everywhere and the
> other one is listed on the spins page, on the same level with everybody
> else.
>
> --
> nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 10:02:26 +0100
> From: Jaroslav Reznik <jreznik@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: Re: [Design-team] GNOME background in Fedora 15
> To: Fedora Design Team <design-team@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Message-ID: <201012201002.26880.jreznik@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On Saturday, December 18, 2010 02:23:52 am M?ir?n Duffy wrote:
>> Hi Martin,
>>
>> On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 22:28 +0100, Martin Sourada wrote:
>> > IMHO this would lessen Fedora's visual identity a lot. Imagine you
>> boot
>> > a F15 Desktop Live and what you see is almost pristine GNOME 3
>> desktop.
>> > Where's Fedora in it? Where's our own visual identity in it?
>>
>> Our visual identity would (if the proposal is accepted) be present on
>> the website, on the DVD disc labels and sleeves, in syslinux, in the
>> installer, in firstboot, in plymouth, and on the login screen. The
>> wallpaper we design will be the default for GDM.
>>
>> > Moreover,
>> >
>> > KDE shipped our wallpaper with the 4.0 release, why should we treat
>> > GNOME differently? Is it some new trend?
>>
>> I honestly don't remember the KDE SIG ever approaching us with this
>> request. And honestly why would they? - they aren't the default
>> download, so it's not up to this team, it's up to the KDE SIG what to
>> do. This team, the design team, has purview over the default wallpaper
>> in the default Fedora. Spins have always been able to change their
>> wallpapers as they've liked, and we've even designed alternative
>> wallpapers for them at their request (e.g., Education Spin and Security
>> Spin.)
>
> Actually I asked for something I proposed here - KDE was in the same
> situation
> one year ago... And I still think it's a good idea - to merge
> upstream/downstream branding - it would work best for both Gnome and KDE,
> it's
> long-term solution etc. I'll try to write down the proposal.
>
> But you said it - Gnome spin is now the default one - we should take care
> about
> our jewel.
>
> R.
>
>> > OK, so upstream wants to promote GNOME 3. I'm not a fan of gnome-shell
>> > (quite the contrary), but let them do it. But why the visual identity?
>> > It's the behaviour, the work-flow, the experience that makes GNOME 3
>> > from end-user point of view, and it's the visual identity that makes
>> our
>> > distro Fedora from end-user POV (among other things, but the visual
>> > identity is the first thing you see).
>>
>> They believe the stripes is part of their upstream visual identity. To
>> be fair, they are producing a lot of nice visual materials including
>> videos that have the stripes - because as a DE they must remain neutral
>> wrt distros, so they obviously cannot pick a favorite in choosing a
>> wallpaper. They would like the visual identity then across
>> GNOME-produced materials and Fedora materials and materials produced by
>> journalists and other reviewers checking out GNOME 3 via Fedora to be
>> consistent. This makes sense to me. After F15, it won't be as big a deal
>> since all the hooplah will be over, so at that point we can go back to
>> the standard operating procedure.
>>
>> > So in short, let's be *first* to ship GNOME 3 and let's be *first* to
>> > ship it with our own visual identity. We, the fedora design team,
>> should
>> > be leaders in our area as well ;-)
>>
>> I am unsure if we will be the first to ship GNOME 3. Certainly we will
>> be first to ship it by default. I don't understand how we are being
>> leaders in what you suggest here.
>>
>> ~m
>>
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>
> --
> Jaroslav ?ezn?k <jreznik@xxxxxxxxxx>
> Software Engineer - Base Operating Systems Brno
>
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