On 2023-11-06 Mon 09:39pm, Evan Preston wrote: > Hi Huacai, > > On 2023-11-07 Tue 09:49am, Huacai Chen wrote: > > Hi, Evan, > > > > On Tue, Nov 7, 2023 at 4:32 AM Evan Preston <x.arch@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Huacai, > > > > > > On 2023-11-06 Mon 10:22pm, Huacai Chen wrote: > > > > On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 9:49 PM Jaak Ristioja <jaak@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On 06.11.23 04:15, Huacai Chen wrote: > > > > > > Hi, Jaak and Evan, > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 12:28 AM Jaak Ristioja <jaak@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> On 05.11.23 14:40, Huacai Chen wrote: > > > > > >>> Hi, Evan, > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> On Sat, Nov 4, 2023 at 10:50 AM Evan Preston <x.arch@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> Hi Huacai, > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> On 2023-11-03 Fri 02:36pm, Huacai Chen wrote: > > > > > >>>>> Hi, Evan, > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> On Fri, Nov 3, 2023 at 1:54 PM Evan Preston <x.arch@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> Hi Huacai, > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> On 2023-11-02 Thu 08:38pm, Huacai Chen wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>> Hi, Jaak, > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 1, 2023 at 7:52 PM Jaak Ristioja <jaak@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> On 31.10.23 14:17, Huacai Chen wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Hi, Jaak and Evan, > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 29, 2023 at 9:42 AM Huacai Chen <chenhuacai@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 28, 2023 at 7:06 PM Jaak Ristioja <jaak@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On 26.10.23 03:58, Huacai Chen wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, Jaak, > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 26, 2023 at 2:49 AM Jaak Ristioja <jaak@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 25.10.23 16:23, Huacai Chen wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 25, 2023 at 6:08 PM Thorsten Leemhuis > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <regressions@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Javier, Dave, Sima, > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 23.10.23 00:54, Evan Preston wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2023-10-20 Fri 05:48pm, Huacai Chen wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 5:35 PM Linux regression tracking (Thorsten > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Leemhuis) <regressions@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 09.10.23 10:54, Huacai Chen wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 9, 2023 at 4:45 PM Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 09, 2023 at 09:27:02AM +0800, Huacai Chen wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 26, 2023 at 10:31 PM Huacai Chen <chenhuacai@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 26, 2023 at 7:15 PM Linux regression tracking (Thorsten > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Leemhuis) <regressions@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 13.09.23 14:02, Jaak Ristioja wrote: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Upgrading to Linux 6.5 on a Lenovo ThinkPad L570 (Integrated Intel HD > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Graphics 620 (rev 02), Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7500U) results in a blank > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> screen after boot until the display manager starts... if it does start > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at all. Using the nomodeset kernel parameter seems to be a workaround. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've bisected this to commit 60aebc9559492cea6a9625f514a8041717e3a2e4 > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ("drivers/firmware: Move sysfb_init() from device_initcall to > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> subsys_initcall_sync"). > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As confirmed by Jaak, disabling DRM_SIMPLEDRM makes things work fine > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> again. So I guess the reason: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, this to me still looks a lot (please correct me if I'm wrong) like > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regression that should be fixed, as DRM_SIMPLEDRM was enabled beforehand > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if I understood things correctly. Or is there a proper fix for this > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already in the works and I just missed this? Or is there some good > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reason why this won't/can't be fixed? > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DRM_SIMPLEDRM was enabled but it didn't work at all because there was > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no corresponding platform device. Now DRM_SIMPLEDRM works but it has a > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blank screen. Of course it is valuable to investigate further about > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DRM_SIMPLEDRM on Jaak's machine, but that needs Jaak's effort because > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't have a same machine. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Side note: Huacai, have you tried working with Jaak to get down to the > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> real problem? Evan, might you be able to help out here? > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, Jaak has no response after he 'fixed' his problem by disabling SIMPLEDRM. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sorry, what was it exactly you want me to do? Please be mindful that > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not familiar with the internals of the Linux kernel and DRI, and it > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> might sometimes take weeks before I have time to work and respond on this. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> It doesn't matter. I hope you can do some experiments to investigate > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> deeper. The first experiment you can do is enabling SIMPLEFB (i.e. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> CONFIG_FB_SIMPLE) instead of SIMPLEDRM (CONFIG_DRM_SIMPLEDRM) to see > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> whether there is also a blank screen. If no blank screen, that > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> probably means SIMPLEDRM has a bug, if still blank screen, that means > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> the firmware may pass wrong screen information. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Testing with 6.5.9 I get a blank screen with CONFIG_DRM_SIMPLEDRM=y and > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> get no blank screen with CONFIG_FB_SIMPLE=y and CONFIG_DRM_SIMPLEDRM unset. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> CONFIG_FB_SIMPLE and CONFIG_DRM_SIMPLEDRM use the same device created > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> by sysfb_init(). Since FB_SIMPLE works fine, I think the real problem > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> is that DRM_SIMPLEDRM has a bug. The next step is to enable > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> CONFIG_DRM_SIMPLEDRM and trace its initialization. In detail, adding > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> some printk() in simpledrm_probe() and its sub-routines to see where > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> the driver fails. The output of these printk() can be seen by the > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> 'dmesg' command after boot. > > > > > >>>>>>>>> I need your help. I tried with my laptop (ThinkPad E490, Intel Core > > > > > >>>>>>>>> i3-8145U, UHD Graphics 620) but I can't reproduce your problem. So > > > > > >>>>>>>>> please patch your 6.5.x kernel with this temporary patch [1], then > > > > > >>>>>>>>> build a "bad kernel" with SIMPLEDRM enabled. And after booting your > > > > > >>>>>>>>> machine with this "bad kernel", please give me the dmesg output. Thank > > > > > >>>>>>>>> you very much. > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> [1] http://ddns.miaomiaomiao.top:9000/download/kernel/patch-6.5.9 > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> I'm unable to download it. Can you please send it by e-mail? > > > > > >>>>>>> I'm sorry, please download from attachment. > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> When applying this patch the first hunk (drivers/firmware/sysfb.c) fails for > > > > > >>>>>> me with 6.5.9. Attempting to load the 6.5.9 kernel without this patch > > > > > >>>>>> produces no dmesg output on my machine. > > > > > >>>>> You copy-paste the patch? If you download it directly it can be > > > > > >>>>> applied successfully, I think. > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> The patch downloaded from your URL applies successfully. However, I still > > > > > >>>> see no dmesg output using the patched 6.5.9 kernel. 'journalctl -k -b all' > > > > > >>>> shows no dmesg output from any 6.5.x boots, only from 6.4.12 boots. > > > > > >>> Thank you for your testing. Since you cannot boot to GUI successfully > > > > > >>> as Jaak, you may have some troubles with getting the dmesg output. But > > > > > >>> you can try to use "systemd.unit=multi-user.target" boot parameters. > > > > > >>> In this way you may boot to the login: prompt and then you can get > > > > > >>> dmesg output. Or if you still fail, you may use 'jornalctl -k -b -1' > > > > > >>> to get the previous dmesg output with 6.4.12. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Hi, Jaak, > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Have you tested? I think you can successfully get a dmesg output with my patch. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Yes, just tested it, here I think are the relevant parts from a dmesg > > > > > >> produced with CONFIG_DRM_SIMPLEDRM and the patch provided by Huacai: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> ... > > > > > >> [ 2.909625] sysfb 1 > > > > > >> [ 2.909627] sysfb 2 > > > > > >> ... > > > > > >> [ 2.951477] ACPI: bus type drm_connector registered > > > > > >> [ 2.952096] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] VT-d active for gfx access > > > > > >> [ 2.952105] resource: resource sanity check: requesting [mem > > > > > >> 0x00000000e0000000-0x00000000efffffff], which spans more than BOOTFB > > > > > >> [mem 0xe0000000-0xe012bfff] > > > > > >> [ 2.952111] caller i915_ggtt_init_hw+0x88/0x120 mapping multiple BARs > > > > > >> [ 2.952138] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] Using Transparent Hugepages > > > > > >> [ 2.953204] Loading firmware: i915/kbl_dmc_ver1_04.bin > > > > > >> [ 2.953485] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] Finished loading DMC firmware > > > > > >> i915/kbl_dmc_ver1_04.bin (v1.4) > > > > > >> ... > > > > > >> [ 4.142075] [drm] Initialized i915 1.6.0 20201103 for 0000:00:02.0 on > > > > > >> minor 0 > > > > > >> [ 4.144269] ACPI: video: Video Device [GFX0] (multi-head: yes rom: > > > > > >> no post: no) > > > > > >> [ 4.144414] input: Video Bus as > > > > > >> /devices/LNXSYSTM:00/LNXSYBUS:00/PNP0A08:00/LNXVIDEO:00/input/input4 > > > > > >> [ 4.144580] [drm] Initialized vgem 1.0.0 20120112 for vgem on minor 1 > > > > > >> [ 4.144590] usbcore: registered new interface driver udl > > > > > >> [ 4.144603] T: probe 1 > > > > > >> [ 4.144605] T: create 1 > > > > > >> [ 4.144610] T: create 2 > > > > > >> [ 4.144611] T: create 3a-1 > > > > > >> [ 4.144613] T: create 3a-2 > > > > > >> [ 4.144614] T: create 3a-3 > > > > > >> [ 4.144616] T: create 3a-4 > > > > > >> [ 4.144618] T: create 4 > > > > > >> [ 4.144619] T: create 5 > > > > > >> [ 4.144621] simple-framebuffer simple-framebuffer.0: [drm] display > > > > > >> mode={"": 60 18432 640 640 640 640 480 480 480 480 0x40 0x0} > > > > > >> [ 4.144628] simple-framebuffer simple-framebuffer.0: [drm] > > > > > >> framebuffer format=XR24 little-endian (0x34325258), size=640x480, > > > > > >> stride=2560 byte > > > > > >> [ 4.144633] T: create 6b-1 > > > > > >> [ 4.144635] T: create 6b-2 > > > > > >> [ 4.144637] simple-framebuffer simple-framebuffer.0: [drm] using I/O > > > > > >> memory framebuffer at [mem 0xe0000000-0xe012bfff flags 0x200] > > > > > >> [ 4.144643] T: create 6b-3 > > > > > >> [ 4.144660] T: create 6b-4 > > > > > >> [ 4.144662] T: create 7 > > > > > >> [ 4.144673] T: create 8 > > > > > >> [ 4.144676] T: create 9 > > > > > >> [ 4.144678] T: create 10 > > > > > >> [ 4.144681] T: create 11 > > > > > >> [ 4.144685] T: create 12 > > > > > >> [ 4.144689] T: probe 2 > > > > > >> [ 4.144728] [drm] Initialized simpledrm 1.0.0 20200625 for > > > > > >> simple-framebuffer.0 on minor 2 > > > > > >> [ 4.144732] T: probe 3 > > > > > >> [ 4.145905] Console: switching to colour frame buffer device 80x30 > > > > > >> [ 4.150437] simple-framebuffer simple-framebuffer.0: [drm] fb0: > > > > > >> simpledrmdrmfb frame buffer device > > > > > >> [ 4.150766] T: probe 4 > > > > > >> [ 4.151218] loop: module loaded > > > > > >> [ 4.154434] i915 0000:00:02.0: [drm] fb1: i915drmfb frame buffer device > > > > > >> ... > > > > > >> [ 44.630789] simple-framebuffer simple-framebuffer.0: swiotlb buffer > > > > > >> is full (sz: 1310720 bytes), total 32768 (slots), used 0 (slots) > > > > > >> ... > > > > > >> > > > > > >> The last message might be due to the display manager starting up. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Hope it helps. > > > > > > Thank you for your testing. Jaak's problem seems related to the > > > > > > initialization order, you can try to modify drivers/gpu/drm/Makefile, > > > > > > move > > > > > > > > > > > > obj-y += tiny/ > > > > > > > > > > > > to between these two lines > > > > > > > > > > > > obj-$(CONFIG_DRM_SCHED) += scheduler/ > > > > > > obj-$(CONFIG_DRM_RADEON)+= radeon/ > > > > > > > > > > > > then build a new 6.5.x kernel to see whether your problem is resolved. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, this seems to have resolved it. > > > > Hi, Jaak, > > > > > > > > Thank you very much, and I hope this also solves Evan's problem. > > > > > > I still get a blank screen if I modify drivers/gpu/drm/Makefile to move the > > > order of 'tiny'. > > You probably encounter another problem which has no relationship with > > 60aebc9559492cea6a9625f514a804 ("drivers/firmware: Move sysfb_init() > > from device_initcall to subsys_initcall_sync"). You can revert it to > > test 6.5.x again. > > You are right. I reverted "drivers/firmware: Move sysfb_init() from > device_initcall to subsys_initcall_sync" on 6.5.9 and still get a blank > screen immediately after boot loader entry selection. > > Evan > Just to close the loop on my issue: after a BIOS update I can boot 6.5.x successfully. Evan > > > > Huacai > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, Javier, > > > > > > > > I think I have mostly found the root cause. DRM_SIMPLEDRM has no bugs, > > > > Jaak's problem is due to the initialization order of drivers, and this > > > > order depends on the Makefile. > > > > > > > > FB_SIMPLE is before native DRM drivers (e.g. i915, radeon, amdgpu, and > > > > so on), but DRM_SIMPLEDRM is after them. Thus, if Jaak uses FB_SIMPLE, > > > > I915 will takeover FB_SIMPLE, then no problem; and if Jaak uses > > > > DRM_SIMPLEDRM, DRM_SIMPLEDRM will try to takeover I915, but fails to > > > > work. > > > > > > > > So, when I move the "tiny" directory before i915, the problem is > > > > solved. But the new problem is: is it acceptable to solve this problem > > > > by adjusting Makefile? > > > > > > > > Huacai > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jaak > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Evan's problem seems a little strange, could you please give me your > > > > > > config files of both 6.4.12 and 6.5.x? And you can also try the above > > > > > > method to see if anything changes. > > > > > > I'll send you my config files. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Huacai > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> J > > > > > >> > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>> Evan > > > > > >>>> > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>> Huacai > > > > > >>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> Evan > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>> Huacai > > > > > >>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> Jaak > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>> Huacai > > > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> Huacai > > > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Jaak > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Huacai > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Jaak > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But I write this mail for a different reason: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am having the same issue on a Lenovo Thinkpad P70 (Intel > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Corporation HD Graphics 530 (rev 06), Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-6700HQ). > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Upgrading from Linux 6.4.12 to 6.5 and later results in only a blank > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> screen after boot and a rapidly flashing device-access-status > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indicator. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This additional report makes me wonder if we should revert the culprit > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (60aebc9559492c ("drivers/firmware: Move sysfb_init() from > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> device_initcall to subsys_initcall_sync") [v6.5-rc1]). But I guess that > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might lead to regressions for some users? But the patch description says > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that this is not a common configuration, so can we maybe get away with that? > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> From my point of view, this is not a regression, 60aebc9559492c > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't cause a problem, but exposes a problem. So we need to fix the > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> real problem (SIMPLEDRM has a blank screen on some conditions). This > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> needs Jaak or Evan's help. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Huacai > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ciao, Thorsten (wearing his 'the Linux kernel's regression tracker' hat) > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everything you wanna know about Linux kernel regression tracking: > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://linux-regtracking.leemhuis.info/about/#tldr > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If I did something stupid, please tell me, as explained on that page. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When SIMPLEDRM takes over the framebuffer, the screen is blank (don't > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know why). And before 60aebc9559492cea6a9625f ("drivers/firmware: Move > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sysfb_init() from device_initcall to subsys_initcall_sync") there is > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no platform device created for SIMPLEDRM at early stage, so it seems > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also "no problem". > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't understand above. You mean that after that commit the platform > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> device is also none, right? > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No. The SIMPLEDRM driver needs a platform device to work, and that > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> commit makes the platform device created earlier. So, before that > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> commit, SIMPLEDRM doesn't work, but the screen isn't blank; after that > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> commit, SIMPLEDRM works, but the screen is blank. > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Huacai > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Confused... > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> An old man doll... just what I always wanted! - Clara > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >>>>>> > > > > > >> > > > > >