Hi,
On 9/14/23 13:54, Boris Brezillon wrote:
On Thu, 14 Sep 2023 12:45:44 +0200
Thomas Hellström <thomas.hellstrom@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 9/14/23 10:20, Boris Brezillon wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2023 15:22:56 +0200
Thomas Hellström <thomas.hellstrom@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 9/13/23 13:33, Boris Brezillon wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2023 12:39:01 +0200
Thomas Hellström <thomas.hellstrom@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi,
On 9/13/23 09:19, Boris Brezillon wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sep 2023 17:05:42 +1000
Dave Airlie <airlied@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Wed, 13 Sept 2023 at 17:03, Boris Brezillon
<boris.brezillon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Tue, 12 Sep 2023 18:20:32 +0200
Thomas Hellström <thomas.hellstrom@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
+/**
+ * get_next_vm_bo_from_list() - get the next vm_bo element
+ * @__gpuvm: The GPU VM
+ * @__list_name: The name of the list we're iterating on
+ * @__local_list: A pointer to the local list used to store already iterated items
+ * @__prev_vm_bo: The previous element we got from drm_gpuvm_get_next_cached_vm_bo()
+ *
+ * This helper is here to provide lockless list iteration. Lockless as in, the
+ * iterator releases the lock immediately after picking the first element from
+ * the list, so list insertion deletion can happen concurrently.
Are the list spinlocks needed for that async state update from within
the dma-fence critical section we've discussed previously?
Any driver calling _[un]link() from its drm_gpu_scheduler::run_job()
hook will be in this situation (Panthor at the moment, PowerVR soon). I
get that Xe and Nouveau don't need that because they update the VM
state early (in the ioctl path), but I keep thinking this will hurt us
if we don't think it through from the beginning, because once you've
set this logic to depend only on resv locks, it will be pretty hard to
get back to a solution which lets synchronous VM_BINDs take precedence
on asynchronous request, and, with vkQueueBindSparse() passing external
deps (plus the fact the VM_BIND queue might be pretty deep), it can
take a long time to get your synchronous VM_BIND executed...
So this would boil down to either (possibly opt-in) keeping the spinlock
approach or pushing the unlink out to a wq then?
Deferred _unlink() would not be an issue, since I already defer the
drm_gpuva destruction to a wq, it would just a be a matter of moving the
_unlink() call there as well. But _link() also takes the GEM gpuva list
lock, and that one is bit tricky, in that sm_map() can trigger 2 more
_link() calls for the prev/next mappings, which we can't guess until we
get to execute the VM update. If we mandate the use of the GEM resv
lock, that simply means async VM updates (AKA calling
drm_gpuvm_sm_[un]map()) are not an option. And if this is what everyone
agrees on, then I'd like the APIs that make this sort of async VM
update possible (drm_gpuvm_sm_[un]map(), the drm_gpuvm_ops::sm_step*
methods, and probably other things) to be dropped, so we don't make it
look like it's something we support.
BTW, as also asked in a reply to Danilo, how do you call unlink from
run_job() when it was requiring the obj->dma_resv lock, or was that a WIP?
_unlink() makes sure the GEM gpuva list lock is taken, but this can be
a custom lock (see drm_gem_gpuva_set_lock()). In panthor we have
panthor_gem_object::gpuva_list_lock that's dedicated the gpuva list
protection. We make sure we never take this lock while allocating
memory to guarantee the dma-signalling path can't deadlock.
btw what is the use case for this? do we have actual vulkan
applications we know will have problems here?
I don't, but I think that's a concern Faith raised at some point (dates
back from when I was reading threads describing how VM_BIND on i915
should work, and I was clearly discovering this whole VM_BIND thing at
that time, so maybe I misunderstood).
it feels like a bit of premature optimisation, but maybe we have use cases.
Might be, but that's the sort of thing that would put us in a corner if
we don't have a plan for when the needs arise. Besides, if we don't
want to support that case because it's too complicated, I'd recommend
dropping all the drm_gpuvm APIs that let people think this mode is
valid/supported (map/remap/unmap hooks in drm_gpuvm_ops,
drm_gpuvm_sm_[un]map helpers, etc). Keeping them around just adds to the
confusion.
Xe allows bypassing the bind-queue with another bind-queue, but to
completely avoid dependencies between queues the Operations may not
overlap.
So, you check the VM state with some VM lock held (would be the VM resv
in my case), and if the mapping is new (no overlaps with pre-existing
mappings), you queue it to the fast-track/sync-VM_BIND queue. What would
be missing I guess is a way to know if the mapping is active (MMU has
been updated) or pending (MMU update queued to the bind-queue), so I can
fast-track mapping/unmapping of active mappings.
Ok, so I started modifying the implementation, and quickly realized the
overlap test can't be done without your xe_range_fence tree because of
unmaps. Since we call drm_gpuva_unmap() early/in the IOCTL path (IOW,
before the mapping teardown is effective), we lose track of this
yet-to-be-executed-unmap operation, and if we do our
va_range_overlaps_with_existing_mappings() test after such an unmap has
been queued using just the drm_gpuvm tree, we might get false even if
the mapping still exists and is expected to be torn down when the
VM_BIND(unmap) job is executed on the bind-queue. As a result, this
might execute the VM_BIND(map,sync) immediately (because the dependency
went undetected), and then the vm_bind_run_job() function kicks in and
undoes what the synchronous VM_BIND(map) did. Am I missing something?
If I'm correct, that means I'm back to having synchronous VM_BIND ops
queued after all asynchronous ones unless I use something like your
xe_range_fence solution (which I was hoping I could postpone until we
decide to expose multiple bind queues).
Yes, unfortunately fine-granular async range-tracking comes with a cost.
Still, if you are doing page-table updates solely with the CPU, you
could probably short-circuit the fence part of the fenced ranges?
I'm doing it with the CPU, but asynchronously (bind-queue), so I'm
facing pretty much the same problems, I think.
I'm still a bit skeptical about this 'update VM mappings tree early,
defer MMU page table updates' approach, where the VM state and the
actual page table tree are temporarily out of sync until all operations
have been flushed on all queues targeting a VM. This means any test we
do on the gpuvm, like, 'give me the BO mapped at VA xxx', is subject to
'is this the current state or the future state?' questioning. Note that
we can't even get the current VM state anymore, because all the
drm_gpuvm::tree stores with this solution is the future state, and
to-be-unmapped mappings are lost during the transitioning period (when
vm_bind jobs are queued but not executed yet).
Understandable. But this is the way we historically have been doing
things, (I think the whole async atomic page-flipping is using the same
concept), but rather than refering to it as current state and future
state, I'd like to think it as Synchronous CPU state (What an API user
sees) vs GPU state (What the GPU sees where it's currently executing).
Actually, the latency incurred by the fact the page table updates are
done by the GPU is one thing, and I guess I could agree with you if that
was the only difference between the GPU and CPU view. But the fact
VM_BIND jobs can have external dependencies makes things a lot more
confusing. I might be wrong, but I think atomic page-flip is simpler.
Yes you can have implicit deps on your scanout buffer, and yes the HW
will wait for these fences to signal before updating the plane pointer,
but that's still just a simple pipeline with one resource to deal with.
A VM is a whole range with virtual memory regions being attached
physical mem chunks, possibly with each range having its own lifecycle,
etc. It'd make more sense to me to have a way to know the current
state, and the future state.
Yeah so in Xe we support async bind jobs solely to be able to do deep
pipelining and it's not only the pagetable jobs, You could have multiple
bind-evict-restore-exec-unbind-bind-evict-restore-exec all piplelined
and only the available memory resources sets the limit. In fact you can
even have physical VRAM assigned to a bo which won't be used until exec
#5 in the pipeline and released in exec #4 since TTM is aware of async
memory management.
So something needs to absorb the state discrepancy between what you
refer to as the current state and the future state. The question is what
should absorb it? Should it be the gpuvm or some associated driver state
tracking?
Now let's say that you have a deferred bind state-update pending and
track the *current* state in the gpuvm so that a number of vma unmaps
and maps aren't yet visible to gpuvm and then you submit an exec ioctl.
How does the exec ioctl know the gpuvm state? Like external bos to
validate or bos that become evicted, userptr vmas that have been
invalidated? Does the exec need to block waiting for the bind fence to
complete so that it can assess the VM state that UMD intended to be there?
Just one example, say you have a GPU job that triggers some fault
that's supposed to be handled by the kernel driver to unblock the
situation. In order to have some context, the kernel driver needs to
read a GPU buffer that's passed back as a virtual address by the GPU/FW,
so it calls drm_gpuvm_bo_find(), and now it might potentially get a BO
that's not the current BO being mapped at this address, but the future
BO after some asynchronous VM_BIND(map) has been executed, and of
course, the VM_BIND job leading to this future state, could have a
dependency on the GPU job, because this GPU job was using the old
mapping. It might sound completely hypothetical, but that's actually
the sort of things the Mali FW does in a few occasions.
Recoverable faults are typically requiring some sort of memory operation
that requires the dma_resv or outer lock, like validation or
get_user_pages(), and can thus not be performed in the fence signalling
critical path and on Xe they are reserved for Long-Running VMs. On
those, pipelining is not really needed and is disallowed in Xe to avoid
having to deal with the state discrepancy.
But to the actual problem you mention, let's say its a fault that
triggers a need to dump bo contents, then yes in order to be able to do
deep pipelining in this way the driver needs to track some state
discrepancy, and that's an additional overhead.
So yeah, I'm still not convinced we can always get away with just the
future representation of the VM. Sometimes you have to know what's
mapped at the moment.
To bring them in sync you need to wait for fences.
Wouldn't solve the case I mentioned above, AFAICT.
And ideally the async
work should never fail.
Sure, that I considered for granted. If async VM_BIND fails, we just
flag the VM as unusable, and cancel any GPU job submission happening on
the VM. The user then has to recreate the VM to take a fresh start
(DEVICE_LOST situation).
It a bit tricky when we want to clean things up after a failure,
because we might have lost track of some of mappings (early
gpuva_unmap(), but the MMU page tables are still lying around). In our
case (Panthor) that's not really an issue though, because
free_io_pgtable_ops() will take care of that for us.
If one wants to push async work out to be handled solely by the GPU,
this is the way things must be done since the GPU can't take locks or
allocate memory, but as part or all of async work is sometimes done
using the CPU, it might make sense to challenge that to some extent.
I think updating the VM state in the run_job() with drm_gpuva_[un]map()
would still account for the GPU-is-executing-pgtable-updates latency,
and that's not really the sort of desynchronization I'm worried about,
because when you get to submit your VM_BIND job, you know all the job
deps are met, and the VM update is about to happen. What I'm worried
about is the desynchronization incurred by complex VM_BIND job deps
that make it hard to know what's the diff between the drm_gpuvm state
(predicting the future) and the VM state a GPU job expects (the
present).
Yes that sort of deep pipeling requires additional "current" state
tracking for some situations, but waiting in exec for the current state
to catch up with future state, which it seems is a consequence of async
state updates, isn't really an option for us.
Now if you think the decision to remove those spinlocks from drm_gpuvm
was premature, I'm fully OK to have them in there again, but opt-in so
that we have helpers that fit all purposes.
/Thomas
