On 2020-10-19 3:49 a.m., Pekka Paalanen
wrote:
On Fri, 16 Oct 2020 16:50:16 +0300 Ville Syrjälä <ville.syrjala@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 10:11:01AM +0300, Pekka Paalanen wrote:On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 17:20:18 +0300 Ville Syrjälä <ville.syrjala@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:On Fri, Oct 09, 2020 at 04:56:51PM +0300, Pekka Paalanen wrote:On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 16:10:25 +0300 Ville Syrjälä <ville.syrjala@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:On Fri, Oct 09, 2020 at 01:07:20PM +0100, Daniel Stone wrote:Hi, On Fri, 9 Oct 2020 at 10:24, Simon Ser <contact@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:User-space should avoid parsing EDIDs for metadata already exposed via other KMS interfaces and properties. For instance, user-space should not try to extract a list of modes from the EDID: the kernel might mutate the mode list (because of link capabilities or quirks for instance). Other metadata not exposed by KMS can be parsed by user-space. This includes for instance monitor identification (make/model/serial) and supported color-spaces.So I take it the only way to get modes is through the connector's list of modes. That sounds reasonable enough to me, but I think to properly handle colour (e.g. CEA modes have different behaviour for limited/full range depending on which VIC they correspond to IIRC)If the mode has a VIC and that VIC is not 1, then it's limited range, otherwise full range. There are fortunately no cases where you would have the same exact timings corresponding to different quantization range depending on the VIC. And the only reason the same timings could correspond to multiple VICs is aspect ratio. Which is already exposed via the mode flags, assuming the appropriate client cap is enabled. So I think the only reason to expose the VIC would be if userspace is non-lazy and wants to manage its colors presicely, but is otherwise lazy and doesn't want to figure out what the VIC of the mode is on its own.What would "figure out what the VIC of the mode is" require in userspace? A database of all VIC modes and then compare if the detailed timings match? Is that also how the kernel recognises that userspace wants to set a certain VIC mode instead of some arbitrary mode?Yes and yes. Note that atm we also don't have a way for userspace to say that it wants to signal limited range to the sink but wants the kernel to not do the full->limited range conversion. Ie. no way for userspace to pass in pixels that are already in limited range. There was a patch for that posted quite long ago, but it didn't go in.Thanks for the heads-up. If userspace uses all available KMS color management properties (CTM, LUTs, etc.) *and* the video mode implies limited range on the cable, at what point in the pixel pipeline does that conversion from full to limited range occur?It should be the last step. <stop reading now if you don't care about Intel hw details> There is a slight snag on some Intel platforms that the gamma LUT is sitting after the CSC unit, and currently we use the CSC for the range compression.
Thanks a lot for letting us to know about this! AMD display pipe has always at the end CSC matrix where we apply appropriate range conversion if necessary.
On glk in particular I *think* we currently just do the wrong thing do the range compression before gamma. The same probably applies to hsw+ when both gamma and degamma are used at the same time. But that is clearly buggy, and we should fix it to either: a) return an error, which isn't super awesome since then you can't do gamma+limited range at the same time on glk, nor gamma+degamma+limited range on hsw+. b) for the glk case we could use the hw degamma LUT for the gamma, which isn't great becasue the hw gamma and degamma LUTs are quite different beasts, and so the hw degamma LUT might not be able to do exactly what we need.
Do you mean that hw de-gamma LUT build on ROM ( it is not programmable, just select the proper bit)?
On hsw+ we do use this trick already to get the gamma+limited range right, but on these platforms the hw gamma and degamma LUTs have identical capabilities. c) do the range compression with the hw gamma LUT instead, which of course means we have to combine the user gamma and range compression into the same gamma LUT.
Nice w/a and in amdgpu we are using also curve concatenations into re gamma LUT.
The number of concatenations could be as many as need it and we may take advantage of this in user mode. Does this sounds preliminarily good?
Wouldn't the following sentence be interesting for you if the user mode generates 1D LUT points using X axis exponential distribution to avoid unnecessary interpolation in kernel? It may be especially important if curve concatenation is expected?
So I think c) is what it should be. Would just need to find the time to implement it, and figure out how to not totally mess up our driver's hw state checker. Hmm, except this won't help at all with YCbCr output since we need to apply gamma before the RGB->YCbCr conversion (which uses the same CSC again). Argh. So YCbCr output would still need option b). Thankfully icl+ fixed all this by adding a dedicated output CSC unit which sits after the gamma LUT in the pipeline. And pre-hsw is almost fine as well since the hw has a dedicated fixed function thing for the range compression. So the only snag on pre-hsw is the YCbCr+degamma+gamma case.
Where is the display engine scaler is located on Intel platforms?
AMD old ASIC's have a display scaler after display color pipeline ,so the whole color processing can be a bit mess up unless integer scaling is in use.
The new ASIC's ( ~5 years already) have scaler before color pipeline.
Interesting. I gather that if I stick to RGB and full-range, or maybe just full-range regardless of RGB vs. YCbCr on the cable, I should be fine. I'd need to have color management disable all limited-range (VIC) modes in a compositor... no, not disable, but maybe print a warning in the log. I'd love if there was a test suite ensuring these work correctly, but that's a lot of work. I'm not sure if writeback or CRC helps with it, or does it need actual HDMI or DP frame grabber hardware? I presume that there is too much acceptable fuzz in output signal that CRC testing is not going to be useful anyway. The Wayland color management design, or more like compositor designs, kind of rely on the KMS hardware doing exactly what it's told. Thanks, pq
Thanks, Vitaly
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