Re: Linux Plumbers v18 DT-format followup

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Hi Rob,

On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 at 15:31, Rob Herring <robh@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Dec 3, 2018 at 12:20 PM Simon Glass <sjg@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > Hi David,
> >
> > On Sun, 2 Dec 2018 at 18:11, David Gibson <david@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 07:31:37PM -0700, Simon Glass wrote:
> > > > Hi Rob,
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 28 Nov 2018 at 14:51, Tom Rini <trini@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 03:47:22PM -0600, Rob Herring wrote:
> > > > > > On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 3:31 PM Tom Rini <trini@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 08:42:19PM +1100, David Gibson wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Wed, Nov 14, 2018 at 04:29:23PM -0800, Simon Glass wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Hi David,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > We had a discussion today about a possible new v18 DT format[1]
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You have seen Frank Rowand's design from January[2]. Frank presented
> > > > > > > > > material at the conference[3] and I wrote up something up too [4].
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yes, I didn't like the original proposal very much - overly
> > > > > > > > complicated, but the revised one I suggested back looks reasonably
> > > > > > > > do-able.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Your proposal seems to have a rather different focus from Frank's -
> > > > > > > > his is mostly about cleaner handling of overlays and similar
> > > > > > > > extensions.  Yours is mostly about size.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Can I ask what's the concern here?  I mean, first of all, I'm finding
> > > > > > > > it a bit hard to believe that a few kiB of device tree really mean
> > > > > > > > much in the context of a vaguely modern system.  But more specifically
> > > > > > > > is the concern in-memory size?  Or size on persistent storage, disk or
> > > > > > > > flash?  Those two would be amenable to different approaches to
> > > > > > > > mitigate.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, with respect to size, yes, for one example, modern 32bit Allwinner
> > > > > > > SoCs are limited to either 32KiB or 24KiB and 64bit SoCs are limited to
> > > > > > > 32KiB and that's our space for residing and executing from and holding
> > > > > > > the device tree we're working from.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You are referring to limits of what the bootROM can load for u-boot
> > > > > > SPL cases, right?
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes.
> > >
> > > So, I gather this SPL is essentially a first-stage bootloader?  I'm
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > > wondering if fdt is actually the right tool for the job here.  Could
> > > you instead make just a hardcoded structure with the minimal known
> > > values that the first stage loader needs to find the second stage,
> > > which would include the full DT.  I'm envisaging that you'd have some
> > > tool for building that first-stage structure from the fdt, but that
> > > would be done at build time, not runtime.
> >
> > This is the goal of the 'dtoc' tool in U-Boot. It creates header files
> > and structs to hold data from the DT. Would you be open to upstreaming
> > this?
>
> Are you aware Zephyr is doing something similar[1]? I'd think we'd
> only want something in dtc if we can align with them. Even there's
> different needs on the output, there's probably still some parts that
> could be shared. I'm thinking things like address translation.

I think I attended a talk on this at some point but I cannot remember
any details. Something like [2].

I could perhaps get involved in that if there is any interest on the
Zephyr side. The dtoc approach is to generate C structures rather than
define CONFIG variables, thus allowing a bit more flexibility.

Regards,
Simon

> Rob
>
> [1] https://docs.zephyrproject.org/latest/devices/dts/device_tree.html

[2] http://events17.linuxfoundation.org/sites/events/files/slides/Zephyr%20Device%20Tree%20-%20ELC2017.pdf



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