Hello Sebastian, I just checked the survey and you're right, the issue was within the question. Got me a bit confused when I read it but I clicked anyway. Who doesn't like clicking? :-D What best describes your deployment target? * 1/ Bare metal (RPMs/Binary) 2/ Containers (cephadm/Rook) 3/ Both How funny is that. Apart from that, I was thinking of some users having reported that they found the orchestrator a little obscure in its operation/decisions, particularly with regard to the creation of OSDs. A nice feature would be to have a history of what the orchestrator did with the result of its action and the reason (in case of failure). A 'ceph orch history' for example (or ceph orch status --details or --history or whatever). It would be much easier to read than the MGR's very verbose ceph.cephadm.log. Like for example: $ ceph orch history DATE/TIME TASK HOSTS RESULT 2024-05-24T10:40:44.866148Z Applying tuned-profile latency-performance voltaire,lafontaine,rimbaud SUCCESS 2024-05-24T10:39:44.866148Z Applying mds.cephfs spec verlaine,hugo SUCCESS 2024-05-24T10:33:44.866148Z Applying service osd.osd_nodes_fifteen on host lamartine... lamartine FAILED (host has _no_schedule label) 2024-05-24T10:28:44.866148Z Applying service rgw.s31 spec eluard,baudelaire SUCCESS We'd just have to "watch ceph orch history" and see what the orchestrator does in real time. Cheers, Frédéric. ----- Le 24 Mai 24, à 15:07, Sebastian Wagner sebastian.wagner@xxxxxxxx a écrit : > Hi Frédéric, > > I agree. Maybe we should re-frame things? Containers can run on > bare-metal and containers can run virtualized. And distribution packages > can run bare-metal and virtualized as well. > > What about asking independently about: > > * Do you run containers or distribution packages? > * Do you run bare-metal or virtualized? > > Best, > Sebastian > > Am 24.05.24 um 12:28 schrieb Frédéric Nass: >> Hello everyone, >> >> Nice talk yesterday. :-) >> >> Regarding containers vs RPMs and orchestration, and the related discussion from >> yesterday, I wanted to share a few things (which I wasn't able to share >> yesterday on the call due to a headset/bluetooth stack issue) to explain why we >> use cephadm and ceph orch these days with bare-metal clusters even though, as >> someone said, cephadm was not supposed to work with (nor support) bare-metal >> clusters (which actually surprised me since cephadm is all about managing >> containers on a host, regardless of its type). I also think this explains the >> observation that was made that half of the reports (iirc) are supposedly using >> cephadm with bare-metal clusters. >> >> Over the years, we've deployed and managed bare-metal clusters with ceph-deploy >> in Hammer, then switched to ceph-ansible (take-over-existing-cluster.yml) with >> Jewel (or was it Luminous?), and then moved to cephadm, cephadm-ansible and >> ceph-orch with Pacific, to manage the exact same bare-metal cluster. I guess >> this explains why some bare-metal cluster today are managed using cephadm. >> These are not new clusters deployed with Rook in K8s environments, but existing >> bare-metal clusters that continue to servce brilliantly 10 years after >> installation. >> >> Regarding rpms vs containers, as mentioned during the call, not sure why one >> would still want to use rpms vs containers considering the simplicity and >> velocity that containers offer regarding upgrades with ceph orch clever >> automation. Some reported performance reasons between rpms vs containers, >> meaning rpms binaries would perform better than containers. Is there any >> evidence of that? >> >> Perhaps the reason why people still use RPMs is instead that they have invested >> a lot of time and effort into developing automation tools/scripts/playbooks for >> RPMs installations and they consider the transition to ceph orch and >> containerized environments as a significant challenge. >> >> Regarding containerized Ceph, I remember asking Sage for a minimalist CephOS >> back in 2018 (there was no containers by that time). IIRC, he said maintaining >> a ceph-specific Linux distro would take too much time and resources, so it was >> not something considered at that time. Now that Ceph is all containers, I >> really hope that a minimalist rolling Ceph distro comes out one day. ceph orch >> could even handle rare distro upgrades such as kernel upgrades as well as >> ordered reboots. This would make ceph clusters really easier to maintain over >> time (compared to the last complicated upgrade path from non-containerized >> RHEL7+RHCS4.3 to containerized RHEL9+RHCS5.2 that we had to follow a year ago). >> >> Bests, >> Frédéric. >> >> ----- Le 23 Mai 24, à 15:58, Laura Floreslflores@xxxxxxxxxx a écrit : >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> The meeting will be starting shortly! Join us at this link: >>> https://meet.jit.si/ceph-user-dev-monthly >>> >>> - Laura >>> >>> On Wed, May 22, 2024 at 2:55 PM Laura Flores<lflores@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> The User + Dev Meetup will be held tomorrow at 10:00 AM EDT. We will be >>>> discussing the results of the latest survey, and users who attend will have >>>> the opportunity to provide additional feedback in real time. >>>> >>>> See you there! >>>> Laura Flores >>>> >>>> Meeting Details: >>>> https://www.meetup.com/ceph-user-group/events/300883526/ >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Laura Flores >>>> >>>> She/Her/Hers >>>> >>>> Software Engineer, Ceph Storage<https://ceph.io> >>>> >>>> Chicago, IL >>>> >>>> lflores@xxxxxxx |lflores@xxxxxxxxxx <lflores@xxxxxxxxxx> >>>> M: +17087388804 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> >>> Laura Flores >>> >>> She/Her/Hers >>> >>> Software Engineer, Ceph Storage<https://ceph.io> >>> >>> Chicago, IL >>> >>> lflores@xxxxxxx |lflores@xxxxxxxxxx <lflores@xxxxxxxxxx> >>> M: +17087388804 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ceph-users mailing list --ceph-users@xxxxxxx >>> To unsubscribe send an email toceph-users-leave@xxxxxxx >> _______________________________________________ >> ceph-users mailing list --ceph-users@xxxxxxx >> To unsubscribe send an email toceph-users-leave@xxxxxxx > -- > Head of Software Development > E-Mail: sebastian.wagner@xxxxxxxx > > croit GmbH, Freseniusstr. 31h, 81247 Munich > CEO: Martin Verges, Andy Muthmann - VAT-ID: DE310638492 > Com. register: Amtsgericht Munich HRB 231263 > > Web <https://croit.io/> | LinkedIn <http://linkedin.com/company/croit> | > Youtube <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIJJSKVdcSLGLBtwSFx_epw> | > Twitter <https://twitter.com/croit_io> > > > TOP 100 Innovator Award Winner > <https://croit.io/blog/croit-receives-top-100-seal> by compamedia > Technology Fast50 Award > <https://croit.io/blog/deloitte-technology-fast-50-award> Winner by Deloitte > _______________________________________________ > ceph-users mailing list -- ceph-users@xxxxxxx > To unsubscribe send an email to ceph-users-leave@xxxxxxx _______________________________________________ ceph-users mailing list -- ceph-users@xxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to ceph-users-leave@xxxxxxx
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