On Thu, Jun 29, 2023 at 5:01 AM Toke Høiland-Jørgensen <toke@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Magnus Karlsson <magnus.karlsson@xxxxxxxxx> writes:
>
> > On Thu, 29 Jun 2023 at 13:30, Toke Høiland-Jørgensen <toke@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>
> >> Stanislav Fomichev <sdf@xxxxxxxxxx> writes:
> >>
> >> > On Wed, Jun 28, 2023 at 1:09 AM Magnus Karlsson
> >> > <magnus.karlsson@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 at 19:06, Stanislav Fomichev <sdf@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Sat, Jun 24, 2023 at 2:02 AM Jesper Dangaard Brouer
> >> >> > <jbrouer@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > On 23/06/2023 19.41, Stanislav Fomichev wrote:
> >> >> > > > On Fri, Jun 23, 2023 at 3:24 AM Jesper Dangaard Brouer
> >> >> > > > <jbrouer@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> On 22/06/2023 19.55, Stanislav Fomichev wrote:
> >> >> > > >>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2023 at 2:11 AM Jesper D. Brouer <netdev@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >> >> > > >>>>
> >> >> > > >>>>
> >> >> > > >>>> This needs to be reviewed by AF_XDP maintainers Magnus and Bjørn (Cc)
> >> >> > > >>>>
> >> >> > > >>>> On 21/06/2023 19.02, Stanislav Fomichev wrote:
> >> >> > > >>>>> For zerocopy mode, tx_desc->addr can point to the arbitrary offset
> >> >> > > >>>>> and carry some TX metadata in the headroom. For copy mode, there
> >> >> > > >>>>> is no way currently to populate skb metadata.
> >> >> > > >>>>>
> >> >> > > >>>>> Introduce new XDP_TX_METADATA_LEN that indicates how many bytes
> >> >> > > >>>>> to treat as metadata. Metadata bytes come prior to tx_desc address
> >> >> > > >>>>> (same as in RX case).
> >> >> > > >>>>
> >> >> > > >>>> From looking at the code, this introduces a socket option for this TX
> >> >> > > >>>> metadata length (tx_metadata_len).
> >> >> > > >>>> This implies the same fixed TX metadata size is used for all packets.
> >> >> > > >>>> Maybe describe this in patch desc.
> >> >> > > >>>
> >> >> > > >>> I was planning to do a proper documentation page once we settle on all
> >> >> > > >>> the details (similar to the one we have for rx).
> >> >> > > >>>
> >> >> > > >>>> What is the plan for dealing with cases that doesn't populate same/full
> >> >> > > >>>> TX metadata size ?
> >> >> > > >>>
> >> >> > > >>> Do we need to support that? I was assuming that the TX layout would be
> >> >> > > >>> fixed between the userspace and BPF.
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> I hope you don't mean fixed layout, as the whole point is adding
> >> >> > > >> flexibility and extensibility.
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > I do mean a fixed layout between the userspace (af_xdp) and devtx program.
> >> >> > > > At least fixed max size of the metadata. The userspace and the bpf
> >> >> > > > prog can then use this fixed space to implement some flexibility
> >> >> > > > (btf_ids, versioned structs, bitmasks, tlv, etc).
> >> >> > > > If we were to make the metalen vary per packet, we'd have to signal
> >> >> > > > its size per packet. Probably not worth it?
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Existing XDP metadata implementation also expand in a fixed/limited
> >> >> > > sized memory area, but communicate size per packet in this area (also
> >> >> > > for validation purposes). BUT for AF_XDP we don't have room for another
> >> >> > > pointer or size in the AF_XDP descriptor (see struct xdp_desc).
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >>> If every packet would have a different metadata length, it seems like
> >> >> > > >>> a nightmare to parse?
> >> >> > > >>>
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> No parsing is really needed. We can simply use BTF IDs and type cast in
> >> >> > > >> BPF-prog. Both BPF-prog and userspace have access to the local BTF ids,
> >> >> > > >> see [1] and [2].
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> It seems we are talking slightly past each-other(?). Let me rephrase
> >> >> > > >> and reframe the question, what is your *plan* for dealing with different
> >> >> > > >> *types* of TX metadata. The different struct *types* will of-cause have
> >> >> > > >> different sizes, but that is okay as long as they fit into the maximum
> >> >> > > >> size set by this new socket option XDP_TX_METADATA_LEN.
> >> >> > > >> Thus, in principle I'm fine with XSK having configured a fixed headroom
> >> >> > > >> for metadata, but we need a plan for handling more than one type and
> >> >> > > >> perhaps a xsk desc indicator/flag for knowing TX metadata isn't random
> >> >> > > >> data ("leftover" since last time this mem was used).
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > Yeah, I think the above correctly catches my expectation here. Some
> >> >> > > > headroom is reserved via XDP_TX_METADATA_LEN and the flexibility is
> >> >> > > > offloaded to the bpf program via btf_id/tlv/etc.
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > Regarding leftover metadata: can we assume the userspace will take
> >> >> > > > care of setting it up?
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > >> With this kfunc approach, then things in-principle, becomes a contract
> >> >> > > >> between the "local" TX-hook BPF-prog and AF_XDP userspace. These two
> >> >> > > >> components can as illustrated here [1]+[2] can coordinate based on local
> >> >> > > >> BPF-prog BTF IDs. This approach works as-is today, but patchset
> >> >> > > >> selftests examples don't use this and instead have a very static
> >> >> > > >> approach (that people will copy-paste).
> >> >> > > >>
> >> >> > > >> An unsolved problem with TX-hook is that it can also get packets from
> >> >> > > >> XDP_REDIRECT and even normal SKBs gets processed (right?). How does the
> >> >> > > >> BPF-prog know if metadata is valid and intended to be used for e.g.
> >> >> > > >> requesting the timestamp? (imagine metadata size happen to match)
> >> >> > > >
> >> >> > > > My assumption was the bpf program can do ifindex/netns filtering. Plus
> >> >> > > > maybe check that the meta_len is the one that's expected.
> >> >> > > > Will that be enough to handle XDP_REDIRECT?
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > I don't think so, using the meta_len (+ ifindex/netns) to communicate
> >> >> > > activation of TX hardware hints is too weak and not enough. This is an
> >> >> > > implicit API for BPF-programmers to understand and can lead to implicit
> >> >> > > activation.
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > > Think about what will happen for your AF_XDP send use-case. For
> >> >> > > performance reasons AF_XDP don't zero out frame memory. Thus, meta_len
> >> >> > > is fixed even if not used (and can contain garbage), it can by accident
> >> >> > > create hard-to-debug situations. As discussed with Magnus+Maryam
> >> >> > > before, we found it was practical (and faster than mem zero) to extend
> >> >> > > AF_XDP descriptor (see struct xdp_desc) with some flags to
> >> >> > > indicate/communicate this frame comes with TX metadata hints.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > What is that "if not used" situation? Can the metadata itself have
> >> >> > is_used bit? The userspace has to initialize at least that bit.
> >> >> > We can definitely add that extra "has_metadata" bit to the descriptor,
> >> >> > but I'm trying to understand whether we can do without it.
> >> >>
> >> >> To me, this "has_metadata" bit in the descriptor is just an
> >> >> optimization. If it is 0, then there is no need to go and check the
> >> >> metadata field and you save some performance. Regardless of this bit,
> >> >> you need some way to say "is_used" for each metadata entry (at least
> >> >> when the number of metadata entries is >1). Three options come to mind
> >> >> each with their pros and cons.
> >> >>
> >> >> #1: Let each metadata entry have an invalid state. Not possible for
> >> >> every metadata and requires the user/kernel to go scan through every
> >> >> entry for every packet.
> >> >>
> >> >> #2: Have a field of bits at the start of the metadata section (closest
> >> >> to packet data) that signifies if a metadata entry is valid or not. If
> >> >> there are N metadata entries in the metadata area, then N bits in this
> >> >> field would be used to signify if the corresponding metadata is used
> >> >> or not. Only requires the user/kernel to scan the valid entries plus
> >> >> one access for the "is_used" bits.
> >> >>
> >> >> #3: Have N bits in the AF_XDP descriptor options field instead of the
> >> >> N bits in the metadata area of #2. Faster but would consume many
> >> >> precious bits in the fixed descriptor and cap the number of metadata
> >> >> entries possible at around 8. E.g., 8 for Rx, 8 for Tx, 1 for the
> >> >> multi-buffer work, and 15 for some future use. Depends on how daring
> >> >> we are.
> >> >>
> >> >> The "has_metadata" bit suggestion can be combined with 1 or 2.
> >> >> Approach 3 is just a fine grained extension of the idea itself.
> >> >>
> >> >> IMO, the best approach unfortunately depends on the metadata itself.
> >> >> If it is rarely valid, you want something like the "has_metadata" bit.
> >> >> If it is nearly always valid and used, approach #1 (if possible for
> >> >> the metadata) should be the fastest. The decision also depends on the
> >> >> number of metadata entries you have per packet. Sorry that I do not
> >> >> have a good answer. My feeling is that we need something like #1 or
> >> >> #2, or maybe both, then if needed we can add the "has_metadata" bit or
> >> >> bits (#3) optimization. Can we do this encoding and choice (#1, #2, or
> >> >> a combo) in the eBPF program itself? Would provide us with the
> >> >> flexibility, if possible.
> >> >
> >> > Here is my take on it, lmk if I'm missing something:
> >> >
> >> > af_xdp users call this new setsockopt(XDP_TX_METADATA_LEN) when they
> >> > plan to use metadata on tx.
> >> > This essentially requires allocating a fixed headroom to carry the metadata.
> >> > af_xdp machinery exports this fixed len into the bpf programs somehow
> >> > (devtx_frame.meta_len in this series).
> >> > Then it's up to the userspace and bpf program to agree on the layout.
> >> > If not every packet is expected to carry the metadata, there might be
> >> > some bitmask in the metadata area to indicate that.
> >> >
> >> > Iow, the metadata isn't interpreted by the kernel. It's up to the prog
> >> > to interpret it and call appropriate kfunc to enable some offload.
> >>
> >> The reason for the flag on RX is mostly performance: there's a
> >> substantial performance hit from reading the metadata area because it's
> >> not cache-hot; we want to avoid that when no metadata is in use. Putting
> >> the flag inside the metadata area itself doesn't work for this, because
> >> then you incur the cache miss just to read the flag.
> >
> > Not necessarily. Let us say that the flag is 4 bytes. Increase the
> > start address of the packet buffer with 4 and the flags field will be
> > on the same cache line as the first 60 bytes of the packet data
> > (assuming a 64 byte cache line size and the flags field is closest to
> > the start of the packet data). As long as you write something in those
> > first 60 bytes of packet data that cache line will be brought in and
> > will likely be in the cache when you access the bits in the metadata
> > field. The trick works similarly for Rx by setting the umem headroom
> > accordingly.
>
> Yeah, a trick like that was what I was alluding to with the "could" in
> this bit:
>
> >> but I see no reason it could not also occur on TX (it'll mostly
> >> depend on data alignment I guess?).
>
> right below the text you quoted ;)
>
> > But you are correct in that dedicating a bit in the descriptor will
> > make sure it is always hot, while the trick above is dependent on the
> > app wanting to read or write the first cache line worth of packet
> > data.
>
> Exactly; which is why I think it's worth the flag bit :)
Ack. Let me add this to the list of things to follow up on. I'm
assuming it's fair to start without the flag and add it later as a
performance optimization?
We have a fair bit of core things we need to agree on first :-D
> -Toke
>
