Actually a screen reader using f12 to tell the time does make it a standard probably unique to that screen reader. Standards are loved by many because there are so many standards from which to choose. There is a huge difference between a standard and the standard; those multiple standards lovers (thick among the software writing crowd and operating system writing crowd) get very combative whenever the standard gets mentioned. Sent from BlueMail for iPhone On Apr 24, 2017 at 9:36 PM, Linux for blind general discussion <blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: I don't think nerds or blind nerds are unique in this sense at all. In fact, since the blind suffer so much from prejudice, I'm always surprised by how prejudiced the blind themselves can be about the blind, although I shouldn't be, since I think that's just human nature. Anyone who thinks the blind are somehow worse then the general population in this sense don't follow the political parties in the US, read reviews on Amazon or follow comments on Facebook or the news sites. Finally just because one screen reader uses F12 to tell the time doesn't make it a standard. -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail On 24/04/17 09:32, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Again, a little give can sometimes be a very good thing. Honestly, nerds all seem to have this thing where they think their way is the best way. This is how distro religious wars start. But of all the community of nerds I am associated with, blind nerds are the worst. There is absolutely no compromise, no willingness to work together, nothing! In fact, it's ubiquitous in the blind community. We even have 2 different advocacy groups, the NFB and the ACB. And the health of the blind community as a whole can just go to heck for all anyone cares. Drives me crazy. The reason why F12 should give you the time is that that the standard. Because people expect F12 to give them the time. It's that simple. On 04/24/2017 01:11 AM, Linux for blind general discussion wrote: Why do I want insert+f12 to tell me the time when insert+t, (t for time), can do that for me just fine and more intuitively? How is f12 better than t, which stands for time? No, that's simply not a logical keybinding, and I don't want it in Orca. BTDubs, holding in the insert Orca key and double tapping t for time does tell me the date. So again I ask what the hell does f12 mean and why is it needed to do the same thing that t already does? ~Kyle _______________________________________________ Blinux-list mailing list Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list _______________________________________________ Blinux-list mailing list Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail _______________________________________________ Blinux-list mailing list Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list _______________________________________________ Blinux-list mailing list Blinux-list@xxxxxxxxxx https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/blinux-list