I agree with you, I think having two base packages works well as it will help people who want an small container install but also people who just want a normal install. On Fri, Oct 11, 2019, 10:31 AM Storm Dragon via arch-general < arch-general@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Howdy, > > I wonder if there shouldn't be two base packages. maybe a base-minimal for > containers, and a base like the original. I worry that the new method will > be confusing for people coming to Arch for the first time, and it kind of > makes things a bit more strenuous for the bare metal user. > > Of course, this could just be because I am used to the old way. Will be > interesting to see what happens. > > Thanks, > Storm > > On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 05:20:46PM +0200, Arch Linux General wrote: > >On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 11:33:51 +0100, Ralph Corderoy wrote: > >>Hi Ralf, > >> > >>> An editor is a fundamental tool > >> > >>Yes, but stepping back a bit... do you accept that neither a text > >>editor, or less(1), are required on a minimal install that's just being > >>used as a base for producing a specialised install for a particular > >>task, as used in a container? > >> > >>I'm unclear if you're arguing what should be in an add-on-to-base > >>package for typical interactive use, or that the concept of stripping > >>back base is wrong and should be reverted. > >> > > > >Hi Ralph, > > > >first of all, the package "base" as is, is ok for me. > > > >_If_ the developers _would_ ask the Arch users, what packages to include > >again, I would at least vote for "less", "vim" and manual pages. > > > >If I run a Linux in a container, this Linux does not need a kernel, but > >actually "less" and an editor are needed by me... > > > >[root@archlinux moonstudio]# systemd-nspawn -bq > >[root@moonstudio ~]# uname -r; lsb_release -d > >5.3.5-arch1-1-ARCH > >Description: Ubuntu 16.04.6 LTS > >[root@moonstudio ~]# less /etc/apt/sources.list > >[snip] > >[root@moonstudio ~]# visudo > >[snip] > > > >...excluding the kernel, let alone packages to support exotic file > >systems, IMO is useful. I want the mainline kernel, even while most of > >the times I'm running real-time patched kernels, but I agree that the > >kernel should be optional. > > > >Removing the man pages, IOW the documentation by default is a very bad > >idea, since this is one of the benefits of BSD and Linux over opaque > >operating systems. > > > >I guess for special minimized installs users want to install > >something like BusyBox and remove man pages, as well as header files > >and even something like "grep" and other that are replaced by BusyBox, > >but such special cases IMO should not be reflected by a base install. > > > >That's my opinion, IOW next time I will install the base package and > >at least add "less", "vim", "nano" [1] and the man page related > >packages. > > > >Regards, > >Ralf > > > >[1] > >$ grep EDIT .bashrc > >export EDITOR="nano" > > > >"vim" because it's the lowest common denominator and "nano" because > >it's easier to use for simple editing. For advanced editing I'm in > >favour of a GUI editor. A lot of other users are probably even in favour > >of an IDE. > > -- > ⛈🐲 > Accessible low cost computers for everyone! Get your slice of the Pi: > https://asliceofthepi.com > My youtube channel: > https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdaTl5vl404OaRxAJPvb8Ew > get my public PGP key: gpg --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net --recv-key 43DDC193 > Follow me on GNU Social: https://social.stormdragon.tk/storm > "Death or glory i will find, Rebellion on my mind." > Grave Digger - Rebellion (The Clans Are Marching) >
