And so a pilot or FA didn't have to live where they were domiciled. Crash pads were a matter of convenience than necessity. Al ----- Original Message ----- From: "RWM" <RWM@xxxxxxxxxx> To: <AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 9:20 PM Subject: Re: Next Few Days Critical for Northwest > Yes, and I'll submit they existed in high cost of living metropolitan > areas in that ear and earlier for the same reasons, especially so prior to > the run up in airline industry wages during the 1980s-1990s. The "good > old times" are back again, though. > > - Bob > > > > Allan9 wrote: > >> Crash pads existed in the 1960s. Can't blame todays economic salary >> conditions. >> Al >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "RWM" <RWM@xxxxxxxxxx> >> To: <AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 2:23 PM >> Subject: Re: Next Few Days Critical for Northwest >> >> >>> Couldn't afford Danish at those levels of income! And the food stamps >>> for which those incomes qualify don't cover Danish anyway. >>> >>> States prescribe different levels, reflecting regional/local cost of >>> living. Try being a NYC-based reserve FA or pilot at those wages, >>> explaining why 'crash pads' exist. >>> >>> Mike Bloomberg reluctantly agrees that $32,000 - NYPD salary after 6 >>> months - is barely making it (but blames it on NYPD salary negotiators). >>> >>> >>> >>> David MR wrote: >>> >>>> Checking the web, I found the following: >>>> Federal proverty level for 2005: >>>> Family Size/Annual wages >>>> 1/$9,570 >>>> 2/$12,830 >>>> 3/$16,090 >>>> 4/$19,350 >>>> >>>> Median starting flight attendant pay $15,552 >>>> (http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos171.htm) >>>> Average starting pilot pay: $14,137. >>>> (http://www.avjobs.com/table/airsalry.asp) >>>> Though both are low, neither of these are below the proverty level for >>>> a family of 1 or 2. >>>> David R >>>> Buy Danish >>>> >>>> -------------- Original message -------------- From: Allan9 >>>> <exatc@xxxxxxxxxx> >>>> >>>>> Alireza >>>>> Maybe we need to clarify what you describe as near the poverty level. >>>>> What do you feel describes that level for pliots and F/As. What do you >>>>> feel is "fair"?" >>>>> Now I realize you have a horse in the race but to be fair in >>>>> discussing the reasonableness of the offer I for one would like to >>>>> know? >>>>> My horse put out to stud back in 1994. So I've been gone for awhile. >>>>> Been a long time since mutual aid days Al >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alireza Alivandivafa" To: Sent: >>>>> Friday, February 17, 2006 12:09 PM Subject: Re: Next Few Days Critical >>>>> for Northwest >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Rickenbacker. You missed Howard Hughes in that one. I disagree that >>>>>> union offers at this point are to be considered unreasonable. F/A's >>>>>> now live down near the poverty line. The legacies have kept on >>>>>> outsourcing express flying to airlines that pay pilots below the >>>>>> poverty line, even when any simple economic analysis can show that >>>>>> they are losing money on non-turbo prop express flying and would be >>>>>> better off paying more in wages to fly it themselves. These aren't >>>>>> the days of "Delta + 1 or United + 1". >>>>>> >>>>>> In a message dated 2/17/2006 11:00:50 AM Central Standard Time, >>>>>> damiross3@xxxxxxxxxxx writes: Both are to be blamed. Unions because >>>>>> of their unreasonable offers Management because they are bean >>>>>> counters and view Northwest as just another business. They are not >>>>>> like the great airline CEO's of the past such as Six, Frye, Trippe, >>>>>> Rickenbecker (sp?), etc. >>>>>