Are we talking about freshly-minted pilots, or experienced ones? When you are starting out in your career, don't expect to be paid top dollar. Put in few years and then start making money. I think this just life. -- Niraj Agarwalla -----Original Message----- From: The Airline List [mailto:AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bahadir Acuner Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 1:17 PM To: AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: Next Few Days Critical for Northwest 15/hr for an entry level CRJ f/o? That is a poverty level..=20 Management saying "I'll work with another airline at low low wages" or 5 on 2 off work schedules at these wages.=20 Standup reserves (ie you fly 6 pm to 10 pm , you sleep in the plane and then do 3am departure flying until 10 am the next morning)=20 =20 I know people are going to say "noone is putting a gun to their head" .. but.. when that's the only flying job, then it's different.. =20 Look at ACA pilots. If you put years into training, low wages and upgraded to captain when you started to make a living wage, you find your self on the street again.. Getting hired on a different airline as an f/o puts you back into the salary list..=20 =20 All these things happen when executives have golden parachutes..=20 =20 Baha=20 Fan of paying well salaries to my employees. I even give them healthcare coverage.. ----- Original Message ---- From: Allan9 <exatc@xxxxxxxxxx> To: AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 10:01:07 AM Subject: Re: Next Few Days Critical for Northwest Alireza Maybe we need to clarify what you describe as near the poverty level. What do you feel describes that level for pliots and F/As. What do you feel is "fair"?" Now I realize you have a horse in the race but to be fair in discussing the=20 reasonableness of the offer I for one would like to know? My horse put out to stud back in 1994. So I've been gone for awhile. Been=20 a long time since mutual aid days Al ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Alireza Alivandivafa" <DEmocrat2n@xxxxxxx> To: <AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 12:09 PM Subject: Re: Next Few Days Critical for Northwest > Rickenbacker. You missed Howard Hughes in that one. I disagree that=20 > union > offers at this point are to be considered unreasonable. F/A's now live=20 > down > near the poverty line. The legacies have kept on outsourcing express=20 > flying to > airlines that pay pilots below the poverty line, even when any simple=20 > economic > analysis can show that they are losing money on non-turbo prop express > flying > and would be better off paying more in wages to fly it themselves. These > aren't the days of "Delta + 1 or United + 1". > > > In a message dated 2/17/2006 11:00:50 AM Central Standard Time, > damiross3@xxxxxxxxxxx writes: > Both are to be blamed. > Unions because of their unreasonable offers > Management because they are bean counters and view Northwest as just=20 > another > business. They are not like the great airline CEO's of the past such as=20 > Six, > Frye, Trippe, Rickenbecker (sp?), etc.