Bob,=20 Please tell me that you are not jumping in the group of people that = consider Southwest the next best thing since slice bread.=20 Granted that I am way more informed about airline travel than regular = Joe Moe, but even some consultant folks are aware of the differences between Southwest and major airlines.=20 Let's leave the food discussion out of the question for a moment. United = has the right package of products for me:=20 - Conveniently located hubs (SFO, DEN, ORD, IAD, FRA, NRT) and focus = cities (SEA, LAX) with all these combinations I can get a 36 inch seat with = decent leg and elbow room.=20 - Very ample destinations.. To this day the only place that I couldn't = get seats on UA/UX carrier was XNA and thank god I didn't have to go there. = (But after 2 months that project born dead UA started service to XNA) - CRJ700s and ERJ170s have Economy Plus and F seats.. Show me another airline that does that..=20 - Southwest doesn't have international connection.. I fly to Istanbul at least twice a year.. UA gets me there in comfort, style with nice connections.=20 - I consistently pay higher fares on United compared to Southwest, even = when I am traveling for personal trips. (Just paid $427 for SFO-RIC instead = of $337 on AirTran. No one can force me in a 737-700 with 17 inch width and = 30 inches of pitch).=20 FlexJet, NetJets, etc. are not an option for me.. I am not a executive, = I am a worker that happens to commute with airplanes.=20 To me 4 hours of drive is the breaking point between flying/driving decision. Even in some cases I personally fly an aircraft, than driving. = I really hate driving because except people in Quebec no one knows the = concept of fast lane, and that drives me insane..=20 Gone are the days of $2000 r/t tickets. Both United and other "majors" = have reduced their cost structures to a point where they are pretty = efficient. So, I think they are going to be here to stay.. Some of the traffic will = be converted to coach only service, but United is really being smart about = it by putting Econ Plus on Ted flights.=20 BAHA Fan of UAL -----Original Message----- From: The Airline List [mailto:AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of = RWM Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 4:34 AM To: AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: Re: NW-DL poss bankruptcy True enough, and this in part explains the comparatively higher=20 penetration of train travel in Europe.=20 Still, there is no reason for network carriers to have gouged people=20 through "discriminant pricing" than: 1./ they stumbled across the economic theory, valid enough, but 2./ they never updated 1970's (pre-deregulation) market research into=20 price/demand elasticity, and 3./ they thought their service was un-substitutable and "worth it"=20 (keep that KoolAid coming), and 4./ they thought (hoped) they could get away with it, relying perhaps=20 on PT Barnum's theory of markets "There's a sucker born every minute". Of course, PT Barnum was an optimist.=20 And then came Southwest, the coup de gr=E2ce. - Bob Bahadir Acuner wrote: >Yes,=20 >But flying is an essential part of the economy. Distances are much = higher >than any other developed country and if you are like me going to = clients, >doing projects, etc. etc. there is no alternative to it.=20 > >Currently there is a not single soul in the project that I am working = on >that is local to Bay Area. One guy comes from NYC, the other one from = PIT, >another one from LAX, me from SEA, PM is from East Coast, etc. etc.=20 > >Tell them to drive and you will lose them..=20 > >The price elasticity of these people are much different than the folks = from >Baltimore going to see uncle Herb in Dallas.. :)=20 > >BAHA >Fan of flying the friendly skies of UAL > >-----Original Message----- >From: The Airline List [mailto:AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of = RWM >Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 2:45 PM >To: AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >Subject: Re: NW-DL poss bankruptcy > >Gerard M Foley wrote: > > =20 > >>Don't know if I've said this before here. If so, I apologize. >> >>It is quite possible that air passenger transportation in the U.S. may = >>go the way of all other forms of public transportation - subsidy or = quit. >> >>The automobile is a fierce competitor. Although its actual costs are=20 >>quite high, a major part of the cost is the initial purchase. Once=20 >>the car is bought, it is very difficult to convince the owner not to=20 >>use it. >> >>The result is that the public transportation facility, rail, bus,=20 >>subway, and maybe airline too, finds that there is no fare point at=20 >>which costs can be recovered. Drop the fare and the added volume=20 >>costs more than the added income. Raise the fare and the reduced=20 >>volume won't pay the fixed costs. The public always has two other=20 >>options - drive or stay home. >> >>Gerry >> =20 >> > >Excellent points, Gerry. Indeed, Southwest is fully cognizant that its >pricing affects the modal split between private and public ground = transport >and travel by air. This is one of the reasons they only reluctantly = raise >fares by $2-4 each-way, when network carriers file for $20 increases. >Fundamentally different views of price elasticity and as a result, >approaches to pricing. > >- Bob Mann >=20 > =20 > --=20 R.W. Mann & Company, Inc. >> Airline Industry Analysis Port Washington, NY 11050 >> tel 516-944-0900, fax -7280 mailto:info@xxxxxxxxxx >> URL http://www.RWMann.com/ This e-mail is for the designated recipient only and may contain=20 privileged or confidential information. If you have received it=20 in error, please notify the above sender immediately then delete=20 the original e-mail. Any other use of this e-mail is prohibited.