Actually Air Canada YVR-HNL isn't 5th freedom but Air Canada HNL-SYD is. Mark -----Original Message----- From: The Airline List [mailto:AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mark Panitz Sent: September 6, 2004 9:20 PM To: AIRLINE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: fifth freedom rights sure are interesting those fifth freedom rights sure are interesting its a good way to sample a foreign carrier and not have to travel to that foreign country like some Examples already given Lax- LHR via Air New Zealand YVR to HNL via Air Canada YVR to JFK on CX (I also remember one time when Cathy pacific had flights YVR to SFO) and as we know now Lax-YYZ via EL AL if you are wondering why I asked this question my niece just flew off to Tel Aviv on that EL AL flight from lax, daydreaming about taking the same flight but only to Toronto and return...