----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Greenwood" <mgreenwood@telus.net> To: <AIRLINE@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU> Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 02:37 Subject: Re: If I ran United... > Steven Catron wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mark Greenwood" <mgreenwood@telus.net> > > To: <AIRLINE@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU> > > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 21:53 > > Subject: Re: If I ran United... > > > > > In any other industry, if you were offering a product that people > > weren't > > > willing to pay for you would get rid of it. > > Internet Explorer, for instance? > > Apples and Oranges. Just demonstrating that the general principle exists elsewhere. > Microsoft earns revenue from advertising or have you > never experienced those annoying pop up windows? Actually, no, I haven't. But FC does earn revenue for the airlines....paid fares, paid upgrades, and mileage redemptions. > > I don't hate first class. I > > > just think the airlines would make a hell of a lot more money if they > > forced > > > people to pay for their premium product instead of giving it away. > > Uh, they're already charging what used to be FC rates for Y these days (or > > at least before mid-2001). > > And if you pay full Y you get First Class on a lot of airlines. Northwest's > YUP fares spring to mind. Exactly my point. So are we agreeing after all? :-) > > I don't > > > have a problem with an airline upgrading someone who flies 200,000 miles > > if > > > the back is oversold and they need upgrades. Upgrading someone from a > > $299 > > > fare to $2999 fare just for the sake of it is equally absurd. > > If it's unsold, then the value of the seat is otherwise zero. $2999 was > > just wishful thinking... > A seat is going to go empty either way, if they don't upgrade that seat is at > the front of the bus, if they do it's empty at the back. Not necessarily. If they upgrade several days in advance, last minute corporate travelers who are ineligible for J-fares can purchase the empty Y seats at full price. > Filling that First Class Seat costs them more money. Costs are greater, but apparently so are the revenues, and by a larger margin. > I have seen cases of > full F passengers been downgraded because the First Class cabin is full of > upgrades or flights not even being available for someone who is willing to pay > for FC because it's full of upgrades. Poor upgrade policies on one airline's part is no reason to throw out the baby with the bathwater. > > > I think your analogy of all of the airlines agreeing to do something and > > > then one of them not doing it is flawed. Someone who is a 2K with > > United is > > > not all of a sudden going to start flying Delta just because Delta > > offers > > > First Class. > > In a heartbeat. I've seen top platinums on CO abandon the company because > > of Gordon Bethune's stating one thing and promptly doing another. Think > > they would hesitate for a second if CO dropped FC and DL didn't? > > Those were probably few and far between, the majority of people are not going > to abandon hundred of thousands of frequent flier miles and start from > scratch. I'd be willing to bet 50% - 75% of upgrade eligible FFs with average segment lengths over 1 - 1.5 hours would switch immediately. It might be interesting if you were to try a poll on that subject over on www.flyertalk.com sometime. > You don't think TAs buy the tickets? TAs buy them on behalf of the customer > and if the customer doesn't have a preference for carrier you can be damned > sure that it's the travel agent who is deciding what airline the passenger > travels on. General travel, yes. Corporate travel? More likely either the passenger or the company will dictate the choice of carrier.