A couple of theories: 1) debt (from the CP takeover) 2) they inherited a mixed-bag fleet. For example, the 767-300s: several marques (333s from AC, 375 from CP, and several acquied on the second hand market, eg ex-Asiana) with a mix of engines (P&W and GE) and non-compatible interior layouts (galley eq't, entertainment systems, etc; a friend recently flew back from Oz in a 767-300 for part of the trip and they couldn't use the entertainment system: the wrong headset type had been loaded on board). The same is true with the 747s: Air Canada had 3 747-433 Combis, and CP had 4 747-475s. AC = P&W, CP = GE. The same is also true in the regional market where the inherited F28s compared to AC Regionals 146s. etc. I've never heard of mergers that didn't result in a mountain of debt and incompatibilities in equipment, management style, procedures, etc etc. The reason QF no doubt came ahead is that they let AN just die a natural death and suddenly found themselves with 100% of the full-service market share at no cost. Air Canada PURCHASED that extra market share and acquired debt and a mountain of trouble in the process. And I'll remind you that all this was spurred on by a hostile takeover attempt from Onex. I do believe Air Canada's prior strategy was to use its superior financial health (at the time) to squeeze CP into a natural death. The Onex fiasco sort of forced their hand into doing something more drastic, to avoid takeover by Onex. Whether that takeover would have been a disaster or it just had to do with Milton's ego we'll never know. Gerry Schwartz of Onex now believes that God handed him a big favour by having his AC/CP takeover fail as he, instead of Milton, would have been trying to sort the mess out. The only difference to the flying public would have been membership in Oneworld rather than Star Alliance. Mike Gammon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Pethick" <thedarkstar2@hotmail.com> To: <AIRLINE@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU> Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 2:59 AM Subject: Re: Air Canada posts record $1.25 billion loss for 2001 > The obvious interesting comparison to the AC situation is QF in = > Australia. While QF may also be losing money on international routes at = > the moment - they are sure raking it in domestically after the collapse = > of AN. QF is currently the only full service airline in Australia. There = > are other no frills airlines similar to what's on offer in Canada. > > So if QF can make record profits on a domestic market the size of = > Australia, then I think AC must surely be able to do likewise or at = > least break even in the larger Canadian market. What are they doing = > wrong ?? Cant still be due to paying to much for Canadian Airlines = > surely.? Any ideas ?? > > Maybe they should practice their skills while playing AIRLINE. :-) > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "Carolyn Stoughton" <carlyn@ont.com> > To: <AIRLINE@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU> > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 12:56 PM > Subject: Re: Air Canada posts record $1.25 billion loss for 2001 > > > > The media air scare would effect all including a monopoly, along with > > exorbitant fuel costs. Regardless, you're right! It would be = > interesting > > to see accurate AC financial records. That's a crowd of cash! > >=20 > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Alex Nieves <alexnieves1@juno.com> > > To: <AIRLINE@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU> > > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 1:59 PM > > Subject: Re: Air Canada posts record $1.25 billion loss for 2001 > >=20 > >=20 > > > Air Canada's managers must be terrible at running an airline! If = > you > > > have almost a monopoly in a market (AC's market is full-service, > > > coast-to-coast airline just in case y'all were thinking Westjet and = > Air > > > Transat, etc), how can you possibly lose so much money? Did they do = > that > > > bad on international routes? Or was traffic to and from the US the = > major > > > problem for AC? If anyone can shed some light into this so I don't = > stay > > > in the dark, i'd appreciate it. That amount of loss just leaves me > > > wondering! > > > > > > Alex Nieves > > > > > > On Thu, 7 Feb 2002 12:32:57 -0600 Roger James <ejames@escape.ca> = > writes: > > > > Air Canada posts record $1.25 billion loss for 2001 > > > > Last Updated Thu, 07 Feb 2002 13:07:34 > > > > > > > > MONTREAL - Air Canada said Thursday it lost a record $1.25 billion > > > > last > > > > year, its worst financial performance since 1992. > > > > Canada's national carrier reported it lost $10.43 a share for = > 2001. > > > > Air > > > > Canada's fourth quarter and full year performance reflect the > > > > extraordinarily difficult environment in which we and other > > > > comparable > > > > North American carriers were operating," chief executive Robert > > > > Milton said > > > > in a news release. Financial analysts say while the airline has > > > > benefited > > > > from cost-cutting measures, they aren't enough to offset a lack of > > > > passengers. "Like the rest of the international airline industry, > > > > we > > > > experienced an unprecedented decline in business travel due to the > > > > economic > > > > downturn along with high fuel prices. Then came the devastating > > > > impact of > > > > Sept. 11," read Milton's release. Air Canada's yearly revenues = > fell > > > > 11 > > > > percent, from $10.8 billion to $9.6 billion. > > > > > > > > Written by CBC News Online staff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The owner of Roger's Trinbago Site: > > > > Roj (Roger James) > > > > > > > > *************************************************** > > > > Trinbago site: http://www.tntisland.com > > > > ICQ: ICQ # 15836110 > > > > ICQ Pager: mailto:15836110@pager.icq.com > > > > escape email #!1 mailto:ejames@escape.ca > > > > yahoo email #2: mailto:triniroj@yahoo.com > > > > Yahoo Pager: triniroj > > > > Caribbean Brass & Soca Connection Group on Yahoo: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/caribsocabrass > > > > Caribbean Brass & Soca Connection Club Website > > > > http://www.tntisland.com/caribbeansocabrassconnection/ > > > > ******************************************************* > > > > Steel Expressions Orch > > > > http://www.escape.ca/~ejames/se/ > > > > email #1: mailto:steelexpressions@yahoo.com > > > > email #2: mailto:steelexpressions@home.com > > > > ******************************************************* > > > > The Trinbago Site of the Week: > > > > (Revellers Mas Band) http://www.revellers.com/ > > > > (Trini Revellers Mas Band) > > > > courtesy of Roj Trinbago Website & TnT Web Directory > > > > Roj's Trinbago Website: http://www.tntisland.com > > > > TnT Web Directory: http://195.224.187.36/ > > > > ********************************************************* > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > >=20