On 05/23/2014 05:54 PM, Eric Blake wrote: > On 05/23/2014 04:19 AM, Laine Stump wrote: >> On 05/23/2014 12:17 PM, Laine Stump wrote: >>> *However*, this discussion forced me to investigate some of the basic >>> assumptions that I'd been making when coming in to fix this bug. In >>> particular, my assumption was that the value of "adjustment" that was >>> set in the status would be preserved across a domain save/restore >>> operation, or a migration, but after talking to jdenemar and looking >>> at the code, I believe that this is *not* the case. >> Okay, disregard this "sky is falling" outburst. I was misreading the >> code and misinterpreting what jdenemar told me. The updated value of >> adjustment and basis *are* properly preserved across save/restore and >> migrate. > Okay, now to rephrase things to see if I understand correctly, or maybe > add more confusion to the discussion. > > If I understand it, the qemu event is always outputting the 'current > adjustment to the command-line offset', and not 'the delta applied to > the most recent RTC change'; Correct. It reports the new offset of the RTC relative to a hypothetical clock that was started when the domain started, and hasn't been adjusted at all. > while libvirt is trying to report 'the > current delta that the guest is using in relation to UTC'. If the > command line was specified with UTC as the basis (that is, 0 > command-line offset), then the qemu offset happens to also be the > libvirt desired offset from UTC. Well, if it was "<clock offset='variable' basis='utc' adjustment='0'/>", then that is true. > If the command line was specified with > any other offset, then the offset from UTC is always the sum of the > command line initial offset + the current offset reported by the event, Correct. > and libvirt is not altering the initial offset while the guest runs. Altering where? libvirt does change "adjustment" in the domain status to reflect the most recent RTC_CHANGE event. It does this by preserving the initial adjustment, and adding that to the offset in the RTC_CHANGE event; this is set as the new adjustment. > And I don't think libvirt has a way for management to query the current > offset (libvirt was only tracking the current offset of running domains > in its private xml). > > For a guest that uses localtime bios, you would start the guest > initially with a non-zero command-line offset (representing the offset > of the timezone the guest thinks it is running in). Twice a year, the > guest will change its RTC by an hour, and the GOAL is that if we stop > the guest and then restart it later, the restarted guest will resume > with bios at the same offset from UTC as what it last had (that is, the > freshly-booted guest will behave as if bios has silently advanced by the > amount of time that the guest was not running, similar to how bare-metal > hardware has a battery powering the RTC even when the box is completely > off and unplugged). If, during the downtime, the guest has crossed a > daylight savings boundary, we don't care - the guest OS upon boot will > recognize that it is using localtime bios, and that it missed a dst > boundary while the machine was powered off, and so it will presumably do > an RTC update by an hour fairly early in its boot process - which will > be caught as an RTC update event so we once again know the new offset to > be applied the next time we boot the guest. All good up to here. > For this to work, a > persistent guest definition needs to record the offset that was in use > at the time the guest powered off, and the next time qemu is started, > pass _that_ offset as the command-line offset against UTC. but this part has never been there. We only modify the adjustment in the live XML, never in the persistent XML. > In libvirt's > case, we intentionally run qemu to stay alive even after the guest > quits, and send an event that the guest is no longer running; this event > could be our trigger to read the qemu offset and adjust the persistent > state to track the new offset to use on the next boot of the guest. > > More interesting is migration (whether by saving to a file or by > migration between hosts). Libvirt is able to query the current qemu > offset prior to starting the migration, but what happens if the guest > changes the RTC on the source after the time that libvirt did the query > but before the guest is paused in preparation for the destination to > start running the guest? Yes - that is one of my questions. > Is the RTC offset transmitted as part of the > migration stream, even if it is a different offset at the time the > migration finally converges than what it was when the migration started? My uninformed guess has been that even if the RTC is part of the migration stream, that it will be overridden by what is put on the qemu commandline on the destination host. > Furthermore, what command line offset should libvirt tell the > destination machine to use, since qemu is only tracking the RTC offset > relative to the command line, and not the offset relative to UTC? Is > there a race here? > > More concretely, suppose I start a guest with a command-line offset of 3 > hours. Then the guest does an RTC change to 4 hours (an offset of one > hour from the command line). Then I want to do a migration - do I tell > the destination qemu to start with a 3 hour offset (identical to what > the source had) and the migration stream corrects it so that the > destination picks up with RTC already at 4 hours (and the guest sees no > discontinuity)? Or does libvirt have to query the current offset at the > time it gets ready to start the migration, and start the destination > with a command-line offset of 4 hours, because the offset is not > migrated? If the latter, what happens if the guest changes RTC in > between when libvirt queries the source for the value to give to the > destination, vs. actually starting the migration? It sounds like the > only sane way for migration to work is for the RTC offset to be part of > the stream, and that the destination must be started with the SAME > command line as the source; and therefore, the only time the command > line should be altered is when the guest is shut down (not for live > migration) - where libvirt must update the domain XML to track the > offset in use at the time the guest shuts down. But of course this isn't how it works now. So whatever we do is either wrong now, or wrong in the future. > > Meanwhile, I know we also recently added the qemu-guest-agent command to > set time, with two modes: 1. tell the guest what UTC time it should be > using, and update RTC to match (which will trigger an RTC change event; > and perhaps can be used to snoop whether the guest is setting RTC to a > localtime rather than UTC time); 2. tell the guest to re-read the RTC > and adjust its local time to match (which pre-supposes that RTC is > accurate). The idea is that after management does something where the > guest has a long downtime (either migration to file, or a long suspend), > the guest's internal notion of time did not advance (because the CPU was > not running) while the RTC did advance (because qemu is still exposing > RTC relative to the host's UTC), so the management will tell the guest > to resync time as part of resuming. > > Now, what good does the RTC change event do, if libvirt really only > needs to query the current RTC offset at the time shuts down? Given > that the guest-agent command deals in UTC (when setting time), does the > management app need to know when the guest changes RTC due to daylight > savings? Or is the case where management tells guest to reset its own > time by re-reading RTC matter for management to know whether that RTC is > not tracking UTC? > > Also, it seems like most people want their guests to run with a proper > notion of current time, even over gaps of time where the guest is not > running (true if the guest is connected to a network and expects to do > anything where being in sync with other computers is important). But is > there ever someone that wants a guest to run as though it were seeing > all possible time values, and thus where every time the guest is paused > and then resumed, its offset from UTC is increased by the amount of > downtime that elapsed (most likely, for a standalone guest with no > emulated network connections)? Do we need to do anything different for > a management app trying to run a guest in such a mode? > -- libvir-list mailing list libvir-list@xxxxxxxxxx https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/libvir-list