Sorry for the delay, minutes are here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Meetings/2008-07-07 And log is below. Best, Jon ----------------------------- --- Log opened Tue Jul 08 00:00:00 2008 --- Day changed Tue Jul 08 2008 00:00 < spevack> ====== BEGIN FEDORA WEBSITES MEETING ====== 00:00 < spevack> ok everyone, let's begin 00:00 < spevack> JonRob: right on :00 for you :) 00:00 ... join!#fedora-websites -> epkphoto(n=epkphoto@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) 00:00 < spevack> for me it's even better -- 00:00:00 for the timestamp 00:00 < ricky> :-) 00:00 < spevack> let's do an official roll call, if you will 00:00 < JonRob> makes it all worthwhile! 00:00 < ianweller> ah, the magic of ntp... 00:00 < spevack> Max Spevack 00:00 * ianweller lurks 00:00 < JonRob> Jonathan Roberts 00:00 < ricky> Ricky Zhou 00:01 < epkphoto> Eric Kerby 00:01 < fchiulli> Frank Chiulli 00:01 < spevack> giarc around? 00:02 < spevack> epkphoto: at the risk of embarassing myself, I'll say that I don't recognize your name immediately... have you been lurking for a while, are you an old-timer who's not been around for a bit, or am I just blind and dumb? 00:02 * quaid is here 00:02 < spevack> hey karsten 00:02 < epkphoto> lurking more or less 00:02 < spevack> well cool, good to have you here epkphoto 00:02 * spevack was expecting an answer of "I've been a Fedora contributor since 2005, you insensitive clod!" 00:03 < spevack> ok... let's look at our agenda. 00:03 < epkphoto> one day after college stops consuming my life, I'll be more recognizable :) 00:03 < spevack> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Tasks 00:03 < spevack> pull ^^^^^ up if you all will 00:03 < spevack> epkphoto: what year are you? where you located? 00:03 ... join!#fedora-websites -> ryanlerch(n=ryan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx) 00:03 < spevack> ok, let's start at the beginning. 00:03 < spevack> I was asked to add Planet to our task list 00:03 * abadger1999 here 00:04 < epkphoto> spevack: graduating in May 2009...located in US/Eastern...specifically NY and VA 00:04 < spevack> namely, we need someone to go through and test planet.fedoraproject.org on Macintoshes, Windows, etc. We need a cross-platform and major-browser test matrix 00:04 < spevack> people have been traveling during the holidays, using random computers, and seeing breakage. 00:04 < spevack> So, who's got access to something other than Fedora? 00:04 < ricky> And Firefox on Linux still has that stupid scrolling problem :-( 00:04 * ianweller has seen breakage on his home computer, on fedora, on firefox-3.0-1 :( 00:04 * ricky could never find out what caused that 00:05 < ianweller> well, the scrolling problem, that is 00:05 < JonRob> i have a mac so can't test os x - though i'll have to reinstall 00:05 < JonRob> can* 00:05 < spevack> Well, I'd like to do this in a slightly organized way 00:05 < epkphoto> i may be able to do some Mac OS X testing 00:05 < spevack> 1) simple page on fp.org/wiki/Planet/Matrix that lists the basic OSs and browsers we want to test look and feel in 00:05 < spevack> 2) a section under each where we can describe problems 00:06 < JonRob> ah ok, good idea! 00:06 < spevack> so that giarc or anyone else hacking on the CSS can have a place to know what's going on... I'm trying to keep us away from a trac instance 00:06 < spevack> that just feels like overkill to me 00:06 ... join!#fedora-websites -> giarc_touch(n=mobile@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) 00:07 < ricky> Speak of the devil :-) 00:07 < spevack> so would someone like to volunteer to create that matrix, send a note to the list, and then get some volunteers to try them out? This is not a complex task -- let's just hit the 4 or 5 highlights and then have a report to give giarc_touch 00:07 < spevack> giarc_touch: howdy 00:07 * ianweller could create the matrix tomorrow 00:07 < giarc_touch> hi 00:07 < ricky> giarc_touch: What different browsers/platforms do you have access to? 00:07 < spevack> giarc_touch: we're talking about building a little QA team for you to test planet.fedoraproject.org across a few different browsers and platforms 00:08 < giarc_touch> cool 00:08 < spevack> ianweller: that would be great. but i'm a little sensitive to giving you stuff this week, unless you're sure you have time for it 00:08 < ianweller> tomorrow i've got nothing going on 00:08 < spevack> ianweller: sounds good, then. thanks! 00:08 < ianweller> shouldn't take too long to get ready 00:08 < spevack> I think you need: 00:08 < spevack> Windows -- IE & Firefox 00:08 < spevack> Mac -- Safari & Firefox 00:09 < giarc_touch> i 00:09 < spevack> Fedora -- Firefox and Epiphany 00:09 < giarc_touch> oops 00:09 < spevack> that probably covers most of it 00:09 < spevack> giarc_touch: go ahead 00:09 < ricky> And maybe Konqueror and possible Opera 00:09 < JonRob> + konq? 00:09 < spevack> ricky: +1 00:09 < ianweller> ok for internet exploder do we care about version 6? 00:09 * spevack presents himself to the KDE guys for a whipping 00:09 < giarc_touch> what issues are we having? 00:10 * spevack only cares about the latest version 00:10 < ricky> ianweller: We should really try to 00:10 < ianweller> i think we should definitely do $currentversion and $currentversion-1 00:10 < spevack> giarc_touch: vague reports of "it looks bad on non-Fedora firefox". That is why we're trying to get volunteers to look at it and either be specific, or just have it go away :) 00:10 < spevack> ianweller: sure. 00:10 < giarc_touch> ok 00:11 < spevack> ianweller: shoot for the stars, and we'll see what kind of volunteers we can rustle up. 00:11 < ianweller> will do. 00:11 < spevack> giarc_touch: i want to come to you with specific cases and screenshots, or not bother you at all 00:11 < spevack> ianweller: ask people to include screenshots with their complaints, it will help giarc_touch a lot 00:11 < ianweller> ok 00:11 < quaid> make sure there is room for >1 person to comment per matrix cell 00:12 < ricky> test case #1: press page down until you reach the bottom - make sure that there are no problems 00:12 * ricky is semi-convinced that this is a Firefox bug 00:12 < ricky> Er, gecko 00:12 < spevack> yeah, it doesn't even have to be a table quaid. Just various sections of the page where people can describe problems or screenshots, etc.... i'm sure we'll work it out. 00:12 < ianweller> we could have a matrix that has anchor links to different sections/pages 00:13 < quaid> +2 00:13 < spevack> ianweller: indeed. In cases like this, i advocate the simplest tool that will allow us to solve the problem :) 00:13 < ianweller> i'm out, bbl 00:13 < ianweller> i'll read logs 00:13 < quaid> that would work nice 00:13 < quaid> ciao 00:13 ... nick!ianweller -> ianweller_afk 00:13 < spevack> ok, let's move on then, since this is pretty well resolved. 00:13 < spevack> ianweller_afk: thanks dude 00:14 < spevack> mizmo-out is not here, so we'll set aside spins.fp.o for the moment. 00:14 < spevack> get-fedora is on the list... juank isn't here but giarc_touch is... let me ask quickly, where do we currently stand on mockups for the next iteration of get-fedora? 00:14 < spevack> i know there's something out there, but i have forgotten where it is. 00:16 < spevack> while we wait on giarc_touch .... ricky, do you have any Websites/Infrastructure topics you need to bring up tonight? 00:16 < spevack> am i all by myself? 00:16 < quaid> yes 00:16 * spevack screams into the ether 00:16 < ricky> I still haven't had much luck making the buildscript friendlier :-( 00:16 < quaid> uh, I mean, no 00:17 < ricky> The few leads from before turned out to have problems 00:17 < spevack> ricky: what kind of problems? 00:17 < spevack> they didn't have enough programming chops to do stuff? 00:17 < ricky> The ${Markup(_(' '))} stuff - I still haven't been able to shake it 00:18 < spevack> ricky: how does that relate to problems with the leads we got from people who said they might be interested in helping? 00:18 < ricky> I don't completely remember what happened with those (I was gone all last week) 00:19 < ricky> I think I've sent a few emails describing the problems that we're facing, but no clear solutions yet 00:20 < fchiulli> ricky: what kind of help do you need? 00:20 < spevack> ricky: well, would you like me to follow up with them, do you want to, or what? what is the best way, overall, that we can help you out, either technically or from a recruiting point of view? 00:21 < ricky> Mostly planning out how to handle translations well. I don't think our current workflow is working as well as it could be. 00:21 < JonRob> i'm a bit clueless on this stuff 00:21 < JonRob> but does turbo gears make this kind of thing easier? 00:22 < JonRob> could we leverage toshio et al? 00:22 < ricky> I spoke with couf a while back (sent to the list with subject "A conversation about website translation") that describes some of the current problems. 00:23 < ricky> One question is whether po files works for website translations 00:24 < ricky> It's a pretty specific situation - unlike the documentation team, we don't follow any specific schedule or anything. 00:25 < spevack> ricky: can glezos help here somehow? 00:25 < ricky> So what could be the costs/benefits to having some sort of release cycle for the website? 00:25 < ricky> spevack: I haven't spoken to him recently - I'll definitely see if he has any thoughts 00:26 < spevack> ricky: is it fair to say that we already have the *basics* of a release cycle for the website, and perhaps just need to beef up the process a bit? 00:27 < ricky> Maybe. I'm trying to think about all of this while keeping my mind on the future of our website. Do we want to expand a lot from what we have now in terms of content? 00:28 < quaid> specifically the problem with the markup is that it is a pain to author in the original language 00:28 < quaid> since it makes PO files, that part is solved, right? 00:28 < ricky> Definitely - that's a specific technical problem that I haven't been able to solve :-( 00:29 < quaid> I wonder if we are re-inventing a hamster wheel that someone else (e.g. Drupal) has resolved ... 00:29 < quaid> s/Drupal/$CMS/ 00:29 ... signoff!#fedora-websites -> tw2113("Never look down on someone unless you're helping them up.") 00:31 < spevack> so what's the path forward here? 00:31 < spevack> i need something to write on the task page along with a check in date 00:31 < spevack> :) 00:31 < spevack> 'cause that's how i roll 00:32 < JonRob> eh, we all love task lists - at least i do 00:33 < spevack> hello? ricky? 00:33 * spevack shakes the internet and smacks it like a malfunctioning toaster 00:33 < ricky> Heh, sorry 00:34 < ricky> Just thinking... 00:34 < ricky> quaid's CMS mention is sounding pretty tempting, honestly. 00:34 * quaid nods his head 00:35 < quaid> and if anyone says Plone ... 00:35 < quaid> I'll smack ya! 00:35 < ricky> Thank you :-P 00:35 < spevack> quaid: /nick mrT :) 00:35 * JonRob wonders hat happened to plone in the end 00:35 * JonRob ducks 00:36 < quaid> looks like there ht be some options written in TG 00:36 < spevack> so, should we make this topic #1 next week? 00:37 < spevack> if so, what do we need to do this week to have it be useful conversation next week? 00:37 < ricky> I'm curious about what everybody's vision for the website is 00:37 < ricky> As in, how much will we expand from what we have now? What should be on the wiki vs. on the website? 00:39 < spevack> static stuff that changes at release, with minor updates mid-release == website 00:39 < spevack> everything else == wiki 00:39 < JonRob> do we want to pull docs etc into the same structure? 00:39 < ricky> This can help us decide how useful a CMS would be to us and what to look for in a solution 00:40 < spevack> that's a vision for www.fedoraproject.org -- spins.fp.o is a totally separate creature. 00:40 < ricky> JonRob: I don't think docs and websites will end up using the same tools 00:40 < spevack> but i assume ricky you are talking about www.fp.o 00:40 < ricky> That I am 00:40 ... signoff!#fedora-websites -> giarc_touch(Connection timed out) 00:41 < quaid> +1 to /*ANY*/ CMS for docs.fp.org 00:42 < ricky> But I mean content-wise - will it pretty much stay like it is now? 00:42 < JonRob> ricky: there's a few small additions i'd like to make at some point 00:42 < ricky> quaid: So we're not going to end up using publican to just generate them all? 00:42 < JonRob> but i guess so 00:42 < spevack> two questions: 00:42 < quaid> ricky: publican only does part of the picture. 00:42 < spevack> 1) quaid, can't docs make a decision on CMS pretty much "on its own"? 00:43 * quaid could see how to hack it with publican and cronjob, but that is juts ore of the same 00:43 < spevack> 2) ricky, are you trying to get at whether www.fp.o needs to run on top of a CMS or on top of custom build/publish scripts? 00:43 < quaid> spevack: not without an army of code monkeys at my command 00:44 < ricky> spevack: That and what would the requirements be for a solution 00:44 < spevack> do we have a sitemap for www.fp.o similar to the one mizmo-out made for spins.fp.o? 00:44 < spevack> if not, we need one. 00:44 < spevack> it will show us the present, and also the potential future 00:44 < spevack> and really help with a whole bunch of decisions that need to be made 00:45 < spevack> agreed, or no? is that where this conversation ultimately goes, in order to be able to make a smart decision 00:45 < spevack> ? 00:45 < JonRob> +1 00:46 < ricky> Yeah 00:46 < spevack> ok... /me makes a note of that. 00:46 < spevack> and jonrob will have it in the minutes too 00:46 * ricky notes the "Fedora Website" document in gobby 00:46 < quaid> yes, we need to see a massive site map that shows the roles of sub-domains as well 00:47 < spevack> quaid: indeed 00:47 < quaid> so we can be clear wtf docs.fp.o is for, or realize it's redundant or whatever 00:47 < quaid> btw, TG-based CMS doesn't seem in process; it was a GSoC idea this year that no one is doing 00:48 < spevack> ok, this is a good task, and a very important one. 00:48 < quaid> if the TurboGears project says it's not really happening ... 00:48 * spevack was referring to the sitemap... 00:48 < quaid> http://www.pagodacms.org/ 00:48 < quaid> right, sorry, jumping all over here 00:48 < spevack> ok, what else do we need to talk about tonight? almost 1 AM for me and I am fading fast 00:49 < spevack> pagoda seems interesting 00:49 * quaid reads their trac instance 00:49 < ricky> Age: 8 months :-( 00:50 < spevack> what else, guys? any other business people want to bring up? 00:51 < JonRob> silence is golden! 00:52 < spevack> ok, then i declare this meeting over. 00:52 * JonRob hopes spevack logged again? 00:52 < ricky> I have a log if you need it 00:52 < spevack> I have some thinking/reorganizing/etc of our task list to do this week. I think we need to cull the chaff, and focus on planet and other L&F, spins, and www and that's it. 00:53 * spevack will try to get something together for folks to think on this week 00:53 < spevack> JonRob: i'll send you the log. 00:53 < spevack> ===== MEETING OVER ===== 00:53 < spevack> thanks for coming, everyone! 00:53 < JonRob> cool cheers 00:53 < spevack> really appreciate your time 00:53 < ricky> Thanks -- Fedora-websites-list mailing list Fedora-websites-list@xxxxxxxxxx https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-websites-list
