On Fri, Jun 01, 2018 at 09:45:50PM -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: > On 06/01/2018 09:32 PM, John Morris wrote: > > On Fri, 2018-06-01 at 11:30 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: > > > > > You did online updates? This is the reason why offline updates is the > > > default now, because doing updates without a reboot can cause weird > > > situations like this. > > > > Ok, you maniacs finally did it, you made a Linux suck as hard as > > Windows. I'm out. > > Seriously? This discussion comes up regularly. See: 2001 or so unless you had upgraded to a new gblic there wasn't a need to reboot Linux machines. Most of the times it was enough to log in/out of your X. And that was it. And that approach was, AFAICS, what John Morris probably was referring to. I think this topic comes up again and again because Fedora isn't aggressive enough to communicate about how much the Fedora (Linux as a whole?) upgrade process has changed over the last 15 yrs or so. And unless the Fedora responsibles don't say it loud and clear that their OS nowadays has become very similar to modern Windows when it comes to the need to reboot after upgrades, this topic will come up endlessly. At least until the last user who saw Linux in 2001 will have ceased to use that OS, from whatever reasons. > In most cases online updates work, but sometimes there are issues. > Read the past threads for more info, but it's an extremely hard > problem to make it always work for very obvious reasons when you > think about what's happening. Stick to the documentation about how to decently upgrade your system, and Fedora guys: Say it to your users, e.g.: 0: Get out of X, 1: start a tty as root 2: start a tmux session 3: upgrade 4: reboot And if someone really doesn't want to reboot: do at least a "dnf needs-restarting" And make it crystal clear to users that the very last Fedora version is unstable, and that we need to be prepared for problems with this version. And BTW: that's true for all software. Look at this "Fedora-is-such-a-totally-great-OS" entrance page to Fedora: https://getfedora.org/ After reading this page: Is anyone really surprised when users, after installing the system, are pissed at times when realizing reality? It all comes down to a lack of clear communication by the Fedora management with their users about what Fedora is, how much it has changed, and why. Regards Wolfgang _______________________________________________ users mailing list -- users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/message/RU5W3GPWB4IQEIZB75JV26ICA54WBKEI/
