On 24 September 2014 03:10, jd1008 <jd1008@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > On 09/23/2014 07:34 PM, Matthew Miller wrote: >> >> On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 05:18:57PM -0500, Dave Ihnat wrote: >>> >>> Let's decide that before we argue any more on the merits--or lack >>> thereof--of systemd itself. If it's not going to change Red Hat's >>> decision, >>> then all we can meaningfully discuss here are discovered issues and any >>> resolutions of same with the current implementation of systemd. >> >> I'm breaking this into a new thread because, as you say, it's a separate >> topic, and because it deserves a fresh start of its own. >> >> Dave, thank you for your thoughtful response. If every thread about >> systemd >> were at this level of civility, we wouldn't have a problem. But, clearly, >> that's not what happens. In fact, these threads continually and quickly >> devolve into personal attacks, name calling, and all manner of nastiness. >> >> This is harmful to Fedora. It makes this list a bad place to get help with >> real issues. It makes it a scary place for new users. It makes it a >> miserable place for active developers and contributors. It doesn't just >> increase the noise: over time, it reduces the signal. >> >> And, it's not just by driving away helpful people. When the thread has >> been >> reduced to a mud-fight, it means that I can't use it as meaningful >> evidence. >> That's part of my job inside of Red Hat. I _want_ to be able to say >> "Fedora >> users are really indicating that we're going to have a problem with this >> direction. Take a look — we need to put resources into fixing this." But, >> if >> someone does look, they'll see that we're mostly busy calling each other >> fascists, > > But the person who adopted the stance of a censor is what prompted > the name calling. Effectively, telling people "THIS IS NOT THE PLATFORM > OR THE LIST FOR YOU TO SPOUT LIKE THAT" > is exactly what prompted the response with the word fascist. > I think redhat or the moderators are simply getting out of line > trying to shut up someone for criticizing the direction Fedora is > taking. If the list is ONLY for people to seek help with problems Telling someone you are fed up with the discussion and that another distro might better suit their needs is hardly censorship. (And let's remember the systemd conspiracy theorist stuff that started it off.) Digging up a post over a week old to restart the thread and call someone a fascist for it shows a shocking level of ignorance about what that term means, how it's currently being used in the world beyond this mailing list and gives an impression of childishness that doesn't help any argument that's being made. -- imalone http://ibmalone.blogspot.co.uk -- users mailing list users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
