On 8/3/11 12:35 PM, Stuart McGraw wrote: > On 08/02/2011 08:15 PM, James McKenzie wrote: >> On 8/1/11 11:46 PM, Ian Malone wrote: >> [...] >>> Constructive criticism and suggestions are far more useful than just >>> enumerating grievances. >> Amen said the choir. Bellyaching about something you cannot change is >> not going to change it and might just dig the heels in of the developers >> more. I've been of that ilk for YEARS. If you have something to say, >> say it, but coat it with HONEY. Remember, the song in Mary Poppins "A >> Spoon Full of Sugar Make the Medicine Go Down"? That is what we should >> be doing. [...] > I certainly agree "Constructive criticism and suggestions > are far more useful than just enumerating grievances" but > don't think that means the latter are useless. They may not be useless, but as a developer I would find them offensive and not pay much attention if the management has told me to 'go another way'. > > As to the honey part, I disagree. Developers and users > constitute a partnership and I don't think it is good to set > the smaller number of developers on a pedestal, approachable > only with circumspection and deference reminiscent of a > French commoner approaching the court of Louis XVI. We already have done this. We basically have alienated the developers to the point that they don't even reply to legitimate bug reports. That is a BAD place to be. > Both partners get pluses and minuses from the partnership. > Developers get bug reporting, bug fixes, and the ego strokes > from being developer of a widely used piece of software. > They may also get financial rewards in the form of consulting > or book contracts, or job offers. Users of course get to use > useful software for free. I agree here. But we also have to remember the phrase "Don't bite the hand that feeds you." If the developers are doing this for 'free' then we should be as gracious as we can when we find something offensive. This has driven more free-lance developers to 'pay jobs' where they are isolated from the 'common chaff' and don't have to listen to nor react to the grumblings of the 'masses'. And much of Linux development is done by ordinary people on their 'free time'. And many have found 'much better' things to do with it. > > If a developer needs deference as well, then they should > distribute their software under license terms that require > that. Or restrict its distribution to people they know will > not be critical. No, we need to be critical, but not destructive. There is a fine line between the two. Complaining that feature 'A' does not work as designed/intended is just fine. Keep it civil. However, complaining that feature 'A' is a Piece of Foul-Smelling Dung that is not worthy of being on Planet Earth is neither and does not win friends in the development world. That is most of what is being said about Gnome3. It works, that we all can agree on. It is NOT efficient, and most of us can agree on that too. However, it does meet the needs of the target audience and that is what is the crux of the matter. We, the 'all knowing' want our Gnome2. Well we have to come up with a really good business case as to why. Otherwise, the developers are going to put a massive amount of energy into Gnome3 and Gnome2 will go by the wayside. This is called 'Progress'. And it stinkith madly. > But if they want the benefits of widespread use, I think they > need to understand that those benefits are going to come with > some criticism as well as admiration and gratitude. Again, criticism yes. Slobbering at the mouth fanaticism no. Remember, developers are PEOPLE first and foremost. I go back to my 'Honey' statement. Read through it. This is how to give criticism per the 'Leadership Guide'. You point out what is good and right about the product and then you state "But it really does not meet the requirements of group XXX" and state what will meet their needs. We the knowing don't need the features of Gnome3, but if you sit there and bad-mouth it all day, the developers are just going to say 'They are Grumpy and THEY WILL ADAPT to what we give them." Same was said for Windows95. Do we still have, to this day, a command line interface? Yep, sure do and I use it everyday. Why? Because a group of folks approached Redmond with a 'really good reason to keep it'. And it stuck. > None of this should be taken as encouraging the dissing of > developers or their work (and certainly not blatantly insulting > or personal attacks), but rather discouraging the 10 times as > many "don't say that" responses that each of the former seem > to generate. Again, I agree. Constructive criticism, delivered honestly, is a good thing. Dissing and bad-mouthing a product does nothing for you (well you'll feel better until you realize that Fedora 17 is out and Gnome2 is nowhere to be found) and definitely does not paint a good picture of you in the development team's vision. Again, like Mary Poppins said "A spoon full of sugar makes the medicine go down." In other words, if we give the good as well as the bad, we have a possible way of making things better. If we point out only the bad, then things can only get worse. (And I've been there with this so I have the Practical Experience badge to go with this.) James > > > > > > > -- users mailing list users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
