On Tuesday 29 July 2008 17:28, Alexandre Oliva wrote: > On Jul 28, 2008, Marko Vojinovic <vvmarko@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > In the following paragraphs of that post, I used it to draw a silent > > parallel to the whole Linux vs GNU/Linux discussion. > > FWIW, classical/information doesn't make for such a parallel. It's > not the classical on top of the information; classical is not a noun, > it's an adjective to information. You'd just say "classical > information" and be done with it. That's how the English language > works. The slash is simply a bizzare syntax that I introduced just for kicks. You are completely right about the adjective and English. However, the parallel is actually between the classical/information "quest for change" and GNU/Linux "quest for change" being both equally sterile. They both may be technically correct, moral, the Right Thing and all, but most people will simply refuse to do it, for no specific reason at all. People are simply reluctant to change their default behavior if they are not forced to, ie. if they are happy with the current situation. Asking them to do the Right Thing (whatever it be) can have only partial success at best. Be happy if one out of a thousand people on this list changes his mind about the name of the [GNU/]Linux. The major effect these quests have on people is to say "oh, no, not again those GNU folks hyping about that damn stupid name, I have to filter out this thread" when they see someone mentioning GNU/Linux instead of Linux. Folks that use Fedora or any other [GNU/]Linux distro are in large number computer lovers and geeks. For them the name "Linux" is a symbol, a synonim for "being better and smarter than those stupid M$ Winblows users", a name that they grew up with and that they love. Renaming that, however morally correct, is just blasphemy for them, and will provoke the simple "I refuse" reaction. Just try to go to Los Angeles and ask people to rename their basketball team from "LA Lakers" to "NY/LA Lakers", for whatever reason you might come up with. Noone would even consider you seriously. "LA Lakers" is a legendary name, people are used to it and love it as it is, and would refuse to change it, on a completely irrational basis. Arguments, credits, quests, the Right Thing, whatever..., are a complete waste of time when confronted to such irrational behavior. The parallel to "classical/information" is quite simple --- no sane person would agree to append a mandatory adjective to such a frequent noun. And why? Well, there simply isn't an answer to "why" question --- they simply won't do it, and won't have a serious explanation if you ask them. In that sense, both "quests" are futile, in my opinion, and hence the parallel. Btw, this is not an argument, just my opinion. :-) > To make the point clear, let's try a thought experiment. Imagine that > some people are so fed up with "these threads" that they set out to > create an operating system built exclusively out of Free (Libre) and > Open Source software, but without any GNU software, to avoid any > claims GNUdists might have on it. [snip] > Now, of course they can use whatever name they like to name the > distribution (they picked cRocks), but what term would you use to best > describe the operating system on which it is based? [snip] > f) Other, please specify: I would probably use the most popular version of the name. That would be the first one I hear, first one I get used to, and the one that would be most probably understood by others when I try to communicate. Which of several names gets to become most popular? Other than "name **** sounds sooo cooool" reasoning, it's mostly a game of chance. It doesn't really matter (to general public). > >> I do not see how not using GNU/Linux is a social injustice. I disagree. > > > > Neither do I, but Alexandre is talking about it in a number of > > posts. > > This is conflating two issues that are related, but not the same. > One thing is the social injustice promoted by non-Free Software. [snip] > Another thing is the name. Ahaaaa, yes, one shoud be careful to keep the distinction between the "freedom-for-software quest" and "change-to-GNU/Linux quest". Good call. :-) They are indeed related, but nevertheless distinct, as you say. Ok, well, to make it clear, whereever I have talked about "social injustice" in this thread in the GNU context, I meant the latter --- the "social injustice of the wrong name of Linux operating system". I have never actually discussed the "non-free-software social injustice", nor I intend to. Without knowing exactly the details about that "free-software-quest", I generally tend to agree with it and support the idea. I feel quite against not being able to share software with my friends and neighbors and so on. But I am getting OT here... :-) Best, :-) Marko -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
