On Sun, 2008-04-27 at 15:44 -0400, max bianco wrote: > On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 7:34 AM, Da Rock <rock_on_the_web@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, 2008-04-26 at 10:44 -0400, max wrote: > > > Da Rock wrote: > > > > On Wed, 2008-04-23 at 11:39 -0600, Robin Laing wrote: > > > >> Alastair Neil wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:23 PM, Ric Moore <wayward4now@xxxxxxxxx > > > >>> <mailto:wayward4now@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 13:05 -0700, Francis Earl wrote: > > > >>> > That article ENTIRELY got it wrong. All RedHat said was they won't be > > > >>> > pushing Linux on the consumer desktop for some time. They make their > > > >>> > money from servers, and they are a company, so it's not in their best > > > >>> > interest to have a product they aren't profiting from. > > > >>> > > > >>> OTOH, as I've said for years, desktops beget servers. Who in their right > > > >>> mind would have ever thought that Windows would become a choice as a > > > >>> server platform?? The Windows3.1 users got used to the desktop and it > > > >>> rolled from there. Disregard the desktops of college entry level users, > > > >>> and they'll migrate with their favorite platform and comfort level to > > > >>> using it to admin their future server needs. What's not to understand in > > > >>> this? RedHat could very well be blowing their lead and not seeing it > > > >>> until too late in the game to recover. > > > >>> > > > >>> We (RH) used to have college programs all over the place ...usually > > > >>> promoted as install fests at Universities. I haven't heard of one in the > > > >>> press for years now. Servers are where the money is, no doubt. But, it > > > >>> is better IMHO to have the future admins loyalty through the user > > > >>> desktop by catering to them. I spent years in Marketing. I learned to > > > >>> never EVER disregard the little guy. He might become the next purchasing > > > >>> agent and/or decision maker. My two cents, Ric > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> An where has it got Microsoft? 20 years and countless billions invested > > > >>> in marketing and they still manage only 30% of the server market. > > > >>> > > > >>> True, Novel lost out to WinNT in part because users got used to the > > > >>> Windows interface and wanted a similar experience for managing their > > > >>> servers. I refuse to believe that there is such a gulf between Ubuntu > > > >>> and RHEL in functionality that users would have the same visceral > > > >>> reaction and defect in droves from RH to Ubuntu - because they love > > > >>> brown backgrounds on their Gnome desktops. Red Hat has focused its > > > >>> desktop efforts on crafting a distribution that is best in class for > > > >>> administering servers, just as SUSE is crafting a business productivity > > > >>> centric desktop distribution with an emphasis on Windows > > > >>> interoperability (thus Evolution, Mono/silverlight and "Don't Sue us > > > >>> please Bill!" agreements). These distros have carved their own niches, > > > >>> I don't as yet know what Ubuntu's niche is - windows malcontents? home > > > >>> tinkerers/hobyists? Small Home Office? You could argue that this is > > > >>> exactly the way linux started and who knows in 10 or 20 years maybe they > > > >>> will have a significant enterprise share, however, I doubt it. Being > > > >>> able to play MP3's out of the box rarely makes it onto a enterprise > > > >>> server deployment specification. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >> This is an interesting comment. Just a few days ago, I read an article > > > >> about Microsoft pointing out companies that have moved from Linux > > > >> servers due to the desktop support as well as gui management tools. Of > > > >> course I hear that they are now adding more command line tools for > > > >> administration due to demand. > > > >> > > > >> I see two aspects to this part of the debate. > > > >> > > > >> If people use Linux at work, they will be more likely to use it at home. > > > >> They will use what they are familiar with. Most computer users are > > > >> not that intelligent to using their computers. Some cannot even figure > > > >> out how to update their computers. > > > >> > > > >> As for MS not getting a larger server share, this is a strange aspect. > > > >> Part of the issue in the past has been many admins that new Unix found > > > >> it easier to move to Linux from Solaris or other versions. The share of > > > >> Windows servers from what I am reading is increasing. I see this as a > > > >> result of the new point and click mentality. If you cannot click it, > > > >> then you cannot manage it. Damn kids today. :) > > > >> > > > > > > > > I know thats the mentality, but my god thats bullshit! I'll use cli > > > > anyday for major tasks- try migrating stats support on a IIS server with > > > > 400+ sites then you'll know! > > > > > > > >> FWIW, this thread has brought out many of the comments that have been > > > >> stated in this article. > > > >> > > > >> Did Canonical Just Get Punked by Red Hat and Novell? > > > >> http://blog.linuxtoday.com/blog/2008/04/did-canonical-j.html > > > >> > > > >> Basically, the announcements are to support the server sales. > > > >> > > > >> I did like this comment though. > > > >> > > > >> "Curiously, very little attention was paid to Ron Hovespian's comments > > > >> on Novell's similar plans, made before Red Hat's. If I were Novell, I > > > >> would take this as a bad sign. Not only did the mainstream media not > > > >> pick up on Novell's news, but even most of the hard-line Linux > > > >> blogosphere wrote them off with nary so much as a "meh" And if you can't > > > >> get those folks mad, you must be doing something wrong! :)" > > > >> > > > >> From the people that I know, the reason to move from Fedora is the > > > >> upgrade path being easier. Longer support is appreciated. Some of > > > >> these people are also old time Solaris users as well. > > > >> > > > >> I will stick with Fedora as long as I can get third party application > > > >> that me and my family use. If they are only available on Ubuntu, then I > > > >> will have to move. > > > > > > > > I think it comes down to ease of support as well. If support doesn't > > > > keep up then the software is rendered useless. Ie MPlayer and codecs... > > > > > > > Obviously Fedora is not for the faint of heart. > > > > No, unix is not for the faint of heart- Fedora could and should be made > > easier to gain a greater share of platforms (and help reduce the zombies > > on the net). > > > Greater share of platforms? why? If you define success by marketshare > then M$ won long ago. Everyone else might as well curl up in a corner > with their knees to their chest and blubber. You say you want to > *take* market share but what ever for?what will you do with the > marketshare once you have it?Spend all your time wondering how to keep > people from jumping ship that's what. I'm a sysadmin- I don't care what they use as long as its secure. I hate M$ for what it stands for- monopolisation of the marketplace and not giving a shit who they stand on to maintain that monopoly. I also hate the fact that every OS they send out- for a bucketload of money- doesn't work as expected and so I (and my clientele and userbase) have to bend over twice to get screwed by paying for support when it breaks (every system retailer will do this- buy the system and the hardware is supported under warranty but the software is not. I have never believed in this, and my business has reflected it; a very lone wolf). So any other distro (even osx) is fine as far as I'm concerned. Incidentally, why do you suppose M$ is trying to jump ship and is SO desperate to buy yahoo? It wants google's place so it can secure its future in the industry- not making software, mind you. -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@xxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
