Re: Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

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On Sun, 2008-04-27 at 15:44 -0400, max bianco wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 27, 2008 at 7:34 AM, Da Rock <rock_on_the_web@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >
> >  On Sat, 2008-04-26 at 10:44 -0400, max wrote:
> >  > Da Rock wrote:
> >  > > On Wed, 2008-04-23 at 11:39 -0600, Robin Laing wrote:
> >  > >> Alastair Neil wrote:
> >  > >>>
> >  > >>> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:23 PM, Ric Moore <wayward4now@xxxxxxxxx
> >  > >>> <mailto:wayward4now@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> >  > >>>
> >  > >>>     On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 13:05 -0700, Francis Earl wrote:
> >  > >>>      > That article ENTIRELY got it wrong. All RedHat said was they won't be
> >  > >>>      > pushing Linux on the consumer desktop for some time. They make their
> >  > >>>      > money from servers, and they are a company, so it's not in their best
> >  > >>>      > interest to have a product they aren't profiting from.
> >  > >>>
> >  > >>>     OTOH, as I've said for years, desktops beget servers. Who in their right
> >  > >>>     mind would have ever thought that Windows would become a choice as a
> >  > >>>     server platform?? The Windows3.1 users got used to the desktop and it
> >  > >>>     rolled from there. Disregard the desktops of college entry level users,
> >  > >>>     and they'll migrate with their favorite platform and comfort level to
> >  > >>>     using it to admin their future server needs. What's not to understand in
> >  > >>>     this? RedHat could very well be blowing their lead and not seeing it
> >  > >>>     until too late in the game to recover.
> >  > >>>
> >  > >>>     We (RH) used to have college programs all over the place ...usually
> >  > >>>     promoted as install fests at Universities. I haven't heard of one in the
> >  > >>>     press for years now. Servers are where the money is, no doubt. But, it
> >  > >>>     is better IMHO to have the future admins loyalty through the user
> >  > >>>     desktop by catering to them. I spent years in Marketing. I learned to
> >  > >>>     never EVER disregard the little guy. He might become the next purchasing
> >  > >>>     agent and/or decision maker. My two cents, Ric
> >  > >>>
> >  > >>>
> >  > >>> An where has it got Microsoft? 20 years and countless billions invested
> >  > >>> in marketing and they still manage only 30% of the server market.
> >  > >>>
> >  > >>> True, Novel lost out to WinNT in part because users got used to the
> >  > >>> Windows interface and wanted a similar experience for managing their
> >  > >>> servers.  I refuse to believe that there is such a  gulf between Ubuntu
> >  > >>> and RHEL in functionality that users would have the same visceral
> >  > >>> reaction and defect in droves from RH to Ubuntu - because they love
> >  > >>> brown backgrounds on their Gnome desktops.  Red Hat has focused its
> >  > >>> desktop efforts on crafting a distribution that is best in class for
> >  > >>> administering servers, just as SUSE is crafting a business productivity
> >  > >>> centric desktop distribution with an emphasis on Windows
> >  > >>> interoperability (thus Evolution, Mono/silverlight and "Don't Sue us
> >  > >>> please Bill!" agreements).  These distros have carved their own niches,
> >  > >>> I don't as yet know what Ubuntu's niche is - windows malcontents? home
> >  > >>> tinkerers/hobyists?  Small Home Office?  You could argue that this is
> >  > >>> exactly the way linux started and who knows in 10 or 20 years maybe they
> >  > >>> will have a significant enterprise share, however, I doubt it.  Being
> >  > >>> able to play MP3's out of the box rarely makes it onto a enterprise
> >  > >>> server deployment specification.
> >  > >>>
> >  > >>>
> >  > >>>
> >  > >> This is an interesting comment.  Just a few days ago, I read an article
> >  > >> about Microsoft pointing out companies that have moved from Linux
> >  > >> servers due to the desktop support as well as gui management tools.  Of
> >  > >> course I hear that they are now adding more command line tools for
> >  > >> administration due to demand.
> >  > >>
> >  > >> I see two aspects to this part of the debate.
> >  > >>
> >  > >> If people use Linux at work, they will be more likely to use it at home.
> >  > >>   They will use what they are familiar with.  Most computer users are
> >  > >> not that intelligent to using their computers.  Some cannot even figure
> >  > >> out how to update their computers.
> >  > >>
> >  > >> As for MS not getting a larger server share, this is a strange aspect.
> >  > >> Part of the issue in the past has been many admins that new Unix found
> >  > >> it easier to move to Linux from Solaris or other versions.  The share of
> >  > >> Windows servers from what I am reading is increasing.  I see this as a
> >  > >> result of the new point and click mentality.  If you cannot click it,
> >  > >> then you cannot manage it.  Damn kids today.  :)
> >  > >>
> >  > >
> >  > > I know thats the mentality, but my god thats bullshit! I'll use cli
> >  > > anyday for major tasks- try migrating stats support on a IIS server with
> >  > > 400+ sites then you'll know!
> >  > >
> >  > >> FWIW, this thread has brought out many of the comments that have been
> >  > >> stated in this article.
> >  > >>
> >  > >> Did Canonical Just Get Punked by Red Hat and Novell?
> >  > >> http://blog.linuxtoday.com/blog/2008/04/did-canonical-j.html
> >  > >>
> >  > >> Basically, the announcements are to support the server sales.
> >  > >>
> >  > >> I did like this comment though.
> >  > >>
> >  > >> "Curiously, very little attention was paid to Ron Hovespian's comments
> >  > >> on Novell's similar plans, made before Red Hat's. If I were Novell, I
> >  > >> would take this as a bad sign. Not only did the mainstream media not
> >  > >> pick up on Novell's news, but even most of the hard-line Linux
> >  > >> blogosphere wrote them off with nary so much as a "meh" And if you can't
> >  > >> get those folks mad, you must be doing something wrong! :)"
> >  > >>
> >  > >>  From the people that I know, the reason to move from Fedora is the
> >  > >> upgrade path being easier.  Longer support is appreciated.  Some of
> >  > >> these people are also old time Solaris users as well.
> >  > >>
> >  > >> I will stick with Fedora as long as I can get third party application
> >  > >> that me and my family use.  If they are only available on Ubuntu, then I
> >  > >> will have to move.
> >  > >
> >  > > I think it comes down to ease of support as well. If support doesn't
> >  > > keep up then the software is rendered useless. Ie MPlayer and codecs...
> >  > >
> >  > Obviously Fedora is not for the faint of heart.
> >
> >  No, unix is not for the faint of heart- Fedora could and should be made
> >  easier to gain a greater share of platforms (and help reduce the zombies
> >  on the net).
> >
> Greater share of platforms? why? If you define success by marketshare
> then M$ won long ago. Everyone else might as well curl up in a corner
> with their knees to their chest and blubber. You say you want to
> *take* market share but what ever for?what will you do with the
> marketshare once you have it?Spend all your time wondering how to keep
> people from jumping ship that's what.

I'm a sysadmin- I don't care what they use as long as its secure. I hate
M$ for what it stands for- monopolisation of the marketplace and not
giving a shit who they stand on to maintain that monopoly. I also hate
the fact that every OS they send out- for a bucketload of money- doesn't
work as expected and so I (and my clientele and userbase) have to bend
over twice to get screwed by paying for support when it breaks (every
system retailer will do this- buy the system and the hardware is
supported under warranty but the software is not. I have never believed
in this, and my business has reflected it; a very lone wolf).

So any other distro (even osx) is fine as far as I'm concerned.
Incidentally, why do you suppose M$ is trying to jump ship and is SO
desperate to buy yahoo? It wants google's place so it can secure its
future in the industry- not making software, mind you.

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