Dne 05. 01. 22 v 19:52 David Cantrell napsal(a):
On Wed, Jan 05, 2022 at 12:39:50PM +0100, Vít Ondruch wrote:Dne 05. 01. 22 v 11:16 Neal Gompa napsal(a):On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 1:31 AM Richard Fontana <rfontana@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:On Wed, Jan 5, 2022 at 12:06 AM Jilayne Lovejoy <jlovejoy@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:On 1/4/22 9:27 AM, David Cantrell wrote:Does it follow that we [Fedora] take an open source project that is dual licensed and use the license that is acceptable in our projectand redistribute under those terms? Is that even a thing one can do? Given the "or" usage, my assumption is yes. The author is giving thedownstream user the choice of using that work under the terms of the GPL or the terms of the Artistic license. In the case of Fedora, we've deemed Artistic undesirable which means our use of the modules is technically under the terms of the GPL.Correct.For me, I would prefer to see this reflected in the License tags in spec files so we can see how we're integrating components in to Fedora. If we note a license that we can't use or that we are not using, it makes it harder to see at a glance _what_ terms actuallyapply to that component. And that makes it harder for other packagerslooking for license-compatible dependencies.Agreed.I sort of agree.I think you mean that there would not be a need for the "OR" operator in Fedora, but there are open source projects that may be licensed under a choice of two "good" Fedora licenses, in which case, it would make senseI realize this is yet another work project and also that I may be incorrect regarding what we can and can't do with regard todual-licensed projects. If we are unable to say "we're using the Perl modules under the terms of the GPL" and exclude the Artistic license,then really the "or" boolean doesn't apply and it's really always "and".to simply pass downstream the choice of both, I would think.The only reason why "GPL+ or Artistic" (or, presumably in SPDX notation, "GPL-1.0-or-later OR Artistic-1.0") shouldn't be used by Fedora is that Artistic-1.0 is "bad" from Fedora's perspective and Fedora has a policy of not distributing code in packages under "bad" licenses. Or else we should revisit that classification of Artistic-1.0, or else document that there is a special exception for Perl modules because Perl module developers upstream objected to the use of merely 'GPL" in the spec file license tag. (I don't really like that last possibility.) Otherwise, if the disjunctive license expression involves two licenses Fedora considers "good", then I agree with Jilayne, the choice should be passed on -- even if there is some argument that it *can't* be (which would mainly be for license compatibility reasons, I guess). That has in fact been the practice in Fedora, and in all the projects and products developed by Red Hat that I'm aware of. At Red Hat we've even explained this to the occasional customer who asks us which license of a FOSS-dual-licensed package, or file, we are shipping under. I am aware anecdotally that there are other companies that do the opposite: they are careful to somehow ceremonially or otherwise "pick" one of the licenses in the disjunct. It is important to note that this is *not* what is done upstream, i.e. by upstream projects using other projects' FOSS code, except in extremely rare cases, and I see Fedora, as well as Red Hat, as perpetuating that general upstream FOSS community practice of passing on FOSS license choices without further analysis. One reason for this is that it's generally never clear which of the licenses ought to be selected or would be preferable, if one had to make a choice. The result is more complex license identifier expressions in package metadata, but I think there the complexity is justified. What it actually *means* for an intermediary to distribute upstream code under the upstream choice of licenses, with conditions that might simultaneously apply to that intermediary on either side of the disjunct, I'm not entirely sure, but in all normal practical scenarios it never really matters -- which is another reason for the "pass the choice on" practice. I'd rather copy the practices of upstream community projects than the practices of GPL-phobic companies downstream, basically.With my upstream hat, I greatly prefer that Fedora *not* make decisions about the licenses. I even kind of prefer what Fedora does today with Perl modules (that is, document both "good" and "bad" licenses). With my Fedora contributor "hat" on (lol), I'd prefer to strip "bad" licenses since we never want to allow that choice of license combinations. I know some think that documenting "bad" licenses means we give permission to use under those terms (that's not even *close* to what that means, but meh). With my downstream consumer hat on, I worry that Fedora making decisions on licenses might lead to weird effects for me when working with other things. I'd prefer Fedora to stay out of picking licenses for packages and allow "runtime evaluation" of license combinations instead. All of this to say, I agree with Richard that we should more or less keep the status quo.Why the license tag couldn't be something like: License: upstream(GPL+ or Artistic) and fedora(GPL+)There could even be macro based e.g. on Mirek's tool to reduce the upstream license set to Fedora license set:%{license:GPL+ or Artistic}because as a packager, I'd be much happier if I can just list the upstream licenses and don't bother what is effective Fedora license.I don't think using a macro for the License tag is a good idea because it risks changing it to something invalid at each rebuild of the package.
Nowadays, we don't even know the License tag is broken, so if it was change by macro from something broken to something broken differently, it can be worse.
But I actually see this as and opportunity for improvement. E.g. if I specified just `Artistic` license, the build would fail right away. If I specified `GPL+ or Artistic`, it would pass. If I specified `foo or Artistic`, it would also pass.
In the case of mass rebuilds and other builds that the maintainer may not do correctly, we risk introducing invalid values in the License tag.
We are constantly in the risk of this. If the tool should produce broken results, then fix and another mass rebuild would fix them.
Also, packages relicense from time to time, some more than others (e.g., Qt). It's best that we capture this as static data in the spec file tied to theversion of the software being packaged.
I am not sure what is the difference to current state. Packages relicense and we are changing (or forget to change) the License tag all the time. The macro won't change it, because there must be the licenses specified the same way as for the current tag.
Vít
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