The problem Jesse is that nobody is going to give you or FL much money, or very much time, when you represent the project like you do below. I want to help nore, even possibly contribute money, but I have to see some organization first. If you compare FL to Debian there are striking real differences. OK, so FL isn't a distro like Debian, it is still an entity that needs some good organization, a charter, and some professionalism. Compare FL to any other entity that is trying to gain some respect, there are things that need to happen that just aren't happening with FL. -Jim P. On Wed, 2005-03-02 at 13:10 -0800, Jesse Keating wrote: > On Wed, 2005-03-02 at 15:34 -0500, Jim Popovitch wrote: > > How? You are assuming that everyone on the mailinglist knew you were > > on > > IRC (not everyone uses that, only the core people seem to), or that > > they > > know your work email or phone (i haven't a clue what you do for work, > > nor do i really care). The point is the onus was on YOU to > > communicate > > after the issue was raised, not the other way around. > > The people that really needed to know, the builders and such, they knew > where to find me and got informed rather quickly. There is no onus. > Are you paying me money to produce these updates? Are you paying me > money to keep the webserver up and working? Did I somehow enter into a > contract that states that you must be kept informed of everything that > happens around the project? I didn't think so. Get off it already. > The outage was supposed to have been for a day, then I was told it was > only the next day, then the next. Then it came up and sending anything > out was a moot point anyway. > > > > Instead of spending effort to say that we're down and working on it > > > (people already KNEW we were down, and people DID know I was > > working > > > on it), I chose instead to WORK on it. > > > > BINGO! Your definition of who knew is different than mine. You > > *thought* everyone knew when in fact they didn't. Yes some people did > > know, those people should have stepped up to the plate and told the > > mailinglist as well. Is this the Jesse Legacy project or is this a > > larger team effort? You, Jesse Keating, don't need to be doing > > everything, there needs to be some *organized* structure for FL to > > endure. > > I don't do everything, not any more. I haven't for quite a while. > There is a web developer, and no less than 3 people with build and > commit rights to packages. In fact, I haven't touched a package in > probably over a year. I'm trying to handle all the higher level things > like server maintainince, Red Hat interaction, FUD defending, hardware > allocation, and some script writing so that the people testing and > building packages can continue to do that with little interruption. > > > > Now I've spent even MORE effort trying to stay calm and answer your > > > statements, when instead I could have been doing something far more > > > constructive, like spearheading our migration over to Red Hat's > > bugzilla > > > system, fixing some build scripts, allocating our x86_64 build > > system, > > > discussing our CVS commit access for FC trees etc... Are you done > > now? > > > Can I go back to doing things that matter? > > > > Frankly, I would rather see you delegate some responsibility to others > > and then you take some time to define and setup an organization before > > doing anything else. > > As I said before you can't be the chief cook and > > bottle washer too. > > When I started the project, there was nobody else. I had to do it all. > I've been taking on help as I go along and will continue to do so. I > cannot however stop everything while we figure out how to manage it. > Thats a disservice to the end users. The nature of this game is to make > it up as you go along, and fix the f'd up things you made up in haste. > Thats what I'm doing now. Deal with it. > > > Going forward please communicate to the mailinglist > > or let the mailinglist know that you don't consider it worthy of > > keeping > > informed. > > Sure, I'll do my best to let the list know at every little fart that > goes on. I'm sure the majority of people really care. > > > In my opinion the crux of FL should be discussed and > > announced on the mailinglists first. > > I'm sorry, where did it say this was a democracy? If there is a > decision that I feel requires community input, I'll bring it here. Not > for a vote, but for opinions that will help me make said decision. If > you don't like this, you're welcome to start your own project. Good > luck w/ that. > > -- > Jesse Keating RHCE (geek.j2solutions.net) > Fedora Legacy Team (www.fedoralegacy.org) > GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub) > > Was I helpful? Let others know: > http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating > > -- > > fedora-legacy-list@xxxxxxxxxx > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-legacy-list -- fedora-legacy-list@xxxxxxxxxx http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-legacy-list
