On Tuesday 06 October 2009 04:31:10 Ryan Rix wrote: > Jaroslav Reznik wrote: > > they > > are still strongly against shipping in stable distro. > > Here are my two cents on this issue and are, in general mostly invalid > because I am quite frankly unable to use koffice2 on my netbook because it > doesn't really 'play nice' on such a small screen. > > Freedom, Friends, Features, First. > > These are the project's foundations[1] and we should be striving to keep > with these goals at all time. Of course, both 'sides' of this debate could > take those goals and use them for their arguments. > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Foundations > > ==Features== > "Features represents our commitment to excellence. The Fedora community > creates many of the technical features that have made Linux powerful, > flexible, and usable for a wide spectrum of millions of users, > administrators, and developers worldwide. We recognize the status quo is > worth changing when the potential gain is to empower additional end-users, > or create a more flexible and powerful environment for building new > solutions on the free software we provide. We also believe that these > changes are best developed in direct concert with the upstream software > communities whose work is part of the Fedora distribution. We work with the > upstream in cases where we find opportunities for improvement, so all free > software users benefit -- regardless of their distribution of choice. Our > feature development is always done openly and transparently, and anyone may > participate." > > ===Key points to take away=== > *"We recognize the status quo is worth changing when the potential is to > empower additional end-users, or create a more flexible and powerful > environment" > *"We also believe that these changes are best developed in direct concert > with upstream software communities" > > ===Questions to ask=== > *Will koffice2 create a more flexible and powerful environment? > **Koffice2.1b has a ton of new features and a framework for the future of > the application. It's more customisable and flexible already than 1.6 was > if not as stable. > > *Will shipping koffice1.6 create a more flexible and powerful environment? > **We are shipping Qt3 and kdelibs3 if we chose to do this. This means there > is less room on our live cd for awesome applications. This makes it harder > for users who may not have the ability to install new software (no/slow > internet, etc) > > *What will be better in the long run for upstream: Keeping the status quo > to lower the risk of creating a bad image, or work with them to provide > bug reports, fixes and feedback? > **This is for the steering committee to decide (even though it already has; > i guess I should have written this last week) We were one of the few > distros that shipped kde 4.0.2 for better or worse, along with OpenSuSE > 11. KDE 4.0.2 was just as rough a cut, arguably, as Koffice2.1b is, if > even a little more raw. Personally, I believe that upstream would benefit > more in this case with Koffice2.1b, as it would give them, as I asked > above, more bug reports, fixes and feedback. > > *What will be better for users in the long run? > **This is more contentious. On the one hand there is the now: What will > help the user out now? Koffice1.6 is more stable and 'better' in this > respect -- you won't be halfway through your masters project when a > Koffice bug munges the entire thing. On the other hand, us helping out > upstream in the long run will be better for users of the software in the > future because upstream will be able to improve on the software more. No > users == no ambition, but fixes and improvement. > > == First == > "First represents our commitment to innovation. We are not content to let > others do all the heavy lifting on our behalf; we provide the latest in > stable and robust, useful, and powerful free software in our Fedora > distribution. An examination of the latest Fedora platform at any point in > time shows the future direction of the operating system as it is > experienced by everyone from the home desktop user to the enterprise > business customer. Our rapid release cycle is a major enabling factor in > our ability to innovate. We recognize that there is also a place for > long-term stability in the Linux ecosystem, and that there are a variety > of community-oriented and business-oriented Linux distributions available > to serve that need. However, the Fedora Project's goal of advancing free > software dictates that the Fedora Project itself pursue a strategy that > preserves the forward momentum of our technical, collateral, and > community-building progress. Fedora always aims to provide the future, > first." > > === Key points to take away === > *First represents our commitment to innovation. > *we provide the latest in stable and robust, useful, and powerful free > software in our Fedora distribution. > *An examination of the latest Fedora platform at any point in time shows > the future direction of the operating system as it is experienced by > everyone from the home desktop user to the enterprise business customer. > *We recognize that there is also a place for long-term stability in the > Linux ecosystem, and that there are a variety of community-oriented and > business-oriented Linux distributions available to serve that need. > *need. However, the Fedora Project's goal of advancing free software > dictates that the Fedora Project itself pursue a strategy that preserves > the forward momentum of our technical, collateral, and community-building > progress. Fedora always aims to provide the future, first. > (I realize I basically posted that entire paragraph) > > === Questions to ask === > *Do we follow First or not? > > I realize that it's probably too late to change this decision, and i'm > basically just rambling off on a mediawiki formatted waste of your time > (sorry, i've been hacking on a wiki all afternoon), but I think that the > goals of Fedora sometimes may mean going against what upstream says is > correct for a 'stable' distro and will support both users and developers > better in the long term. > My ?0.02 (and I wouldn't be surprised to find that Fefora folk are already thinking this way) - forget KOffice on the live CD. Keep KOffice 1.6 easily available on the repos. Keep KOffice 2 on the unstable repos so that those of us with the interest in helping its development can use it. That should give us the best of both worlds, IMO. Anne -- New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org Just found a cool new feature? 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