Quoting Arthur Pemberton <pemboa at gmail.com>: > On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 6:19 PM, Eli Wapniarski > <eli at orbsky.homelinux.org> wrote: >> On Tuesday 27 January 2009 21:57:09 Arthur Pemberton wrote: >> >>> That's the problem, people want stuff that they can't provide >>> themselves and goes against what the ones doing the work decide to do. >> >> Forgive me Arthur but that's just plain rude. Software is meant to >> be used by >> users. > > I think you forget the developers are users too. Isn't it a bit > selfish to expect them to do things how you want it? This in part is true up to a point. However... they are using a product that is developed in a direction where the developer has a vested interest and certainly has a personal stake in it. >> If I'm misunderstanding what you're implying by the your post then >> please forgive me. But even the most intelligent and best informed group of >> people can make mistakes in judgment. The most famous examples is the Bay of >> Pigs fiasco. > > Mistakes sure. But I'm referring to times like with the 3.6 v. 4.0 > decision. There was not enough manpower to do both. Those doing the > work decided to go with 4.0. That has to be respected. It was and is... But somehow in the interim 3.5 has gone through revsions as well. >> User's can't provide the stuff that developers can provide because >> they aren't >> developers. > > It's kinda like going about second guessing your doctor the way I see > it. Feel free to disagree with him and go somewhere else, but verbally > abusing the doctor and their decisions is at best rude. The KDE-SIG > team doesn't deserve any of that. No one in this mailing list has verbally abused anyone. In fact I am quite amazed how civil the debate remains. Fair criticism should be accepted as such. Everyone writing in this mailing list has some interest and certainly has expressed sincere concern about a product that most of admire with a great deal of respect for the quality of work that has gone into it. Rocking the boat and pushing the developers a little to improve KDE should be welcomed. >> And developers should expect some negative feedback when they >> don't meet users expectations, or go off in directions that proves to be in >> error regarding the user experience. This is not a slight regarding the hard >> work and skill that goes into development. > > And users, not being developers, need to give the developers some > leeway while they attempt do to what they do best. The KDE team said > that the big changes were necessary for the future of KDE. Being just > a user, and having no evidence to the contrary, I have to believe > them. > >> And no... you can't please all the people all the time. But us users are the >> ones that actually use that which is developed > > There you go again... forgetting that the developers use the software > as well. These guys haven't been handed requirement docs by customers > that they are duty bound to fullfill. Most of these guys are doing it > for the love and passion of it. That maybe so. But if they do not develop for users then what exactly is the point... "naval gazing" and thats it. Most KDE / Linus users, in a world inundated by Windows this and Mac that, are quite passionate about software they use as well. Which can tend to get rather emotional correspondences. >> and we should be respected. >> That we didn't provide more feedback is our error. But on the other hand, we >> really didn't have that much experience on which to base an opinion >> other than >> the quality and skill that went into KDE 3.x. > > As a user, I am suggesting that is a backwards way to look at it : I > use the software you provide to me (for free no less), so I should > have first say as to how you must do your work. Again. as a user. If you do not feel it in your heart to be passionate about my experience as a user, then what am I doing providing feedback or participating in the open source process. One of the things that I have told my co workers as to the benefit of OSS is that there is always someone to talk to. It there isn't or a developer can't take constructive criticism then what the heck are both of us doing here. >> More than likely because of the great programming that went into KDE 3.x and >> the hype surrounding 4.x we all were expecting the first release to on par. > > Then you have misled by first parties. I stayed in tune with what was > coming out of KDE and Fedora-KDE, and I never expected such. > >> And a lot of us were disappointed that it wasn't. And in many ways still >> isn't. But it is definitely getting there. > > Fine. > >> To paraphrase Rex in a previous post. There really isn't any point to crying >> over spilled milk. >> >> Eli > > I look at it this way : some people attitudes may cost KDE developers, > and that will hurt me as a user one way or the other. Because if was a > FOSS developer, there is only so much public abuse that I would be > willing to take. Most of the criticisms leveled thus far were not > nearly constructive. But on the other hand a lot is and it should be taken as such and considered instead of dismissed out of hand. It is part of the OSS development cycle and it works better than anyother development model. Eli -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/kde/attachments/20090128/ab898914/attachment.html
