Small meeting, not too many people were able to attend. The biggest
item was package managment.
-Mike
[15:06:31] <warren> Who is present for the meeting?
[15:06:43] <mmcgrath> I'll grab it if no one else wants it.
[15:06:50] * iWolf raises hand
[15:06:52] * abadger1999 is here
[15:06:53] <xDamox> me
[15:07:22] <mmcgrath> any new people ou there?
[15:07:26] <warren> mmcgrath, you want all 53 packages? =)
[15:07:46] <jwb+ i'm new. i have no idea what's going on
[15:07:48] <jwb> :)
[15:07:48] <mmcgrath> haha, not all of them, but some of those I use regularly. sqlite comes to mind.
[15:09:11] *** Users on #fedora-admin: @ChanServ abadger1999 c4chris|w cweyl dgilmore dmalcolm f13 halfline iWolf jwb lmacken mmcgrath neuro_ nman64_away ossman rordway skvidal Sopwith tibbs tibbs|h warren xDamox z00dax
[15:09:40] <mmcgrath> First let me ask, does anyone have a problem with me changing 'owner' to 'project lead' on the wiki for the schedule?
[15:09:51] <abadger1999> That was a good change.
[15:10:03] <iWolf> mmcgrath: Good change.
[15:10:12] <abadger1999> Will lead to less confusion from new contributors
[15:10:31] <mmcgrath> I hope so, though I was hoping more would have shown up today for the meeting :(
[15:11:07] <mmcgrath> well admin.fedoraproject.org is basically done.
[15:11:23] <mmcgrath> Its on the wiki and editable though we need to actaully put content there.
[15:11:28] <mmcgrath> by done I mean ready for use.
[15:11:53] <mmcgrath> The package database has peaked my interest more lately but I'm wondering its current status
[15:11:58] <mmcgrath> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/PackageDatabase
[15:12:05] *** Users on #fedora-admin: @ChanServ abadger1999 c4chris|w cweyl dgilmore dmalcolm f13 halfline iWolf jwb lmacken mmcgrath neuro_ nman64_away ossman rordway skvidal Sopwith tibbs tibbs|h warren xDamox z00dax
[15:12:10] <mmcgrath> dgilmore: ping around?
[15:13:05] <mmcgrath> k, we'll skip it for now.
[15:13:20] <mmcgrath> vcs is on hold until we can get the xen boxes set up.
[15:13:20] <warren> Hmm, regarding package database, we simply need to have all stakeholders put their requirements on that page. Extras keeps asking for things, so they should be participating.
[15:13:54] <mmcgrath> warren: k. I worry that this will be one of those BIG projects that will take a long time to even get started on.
[15:14:14] <mmcgrath> as in we won't see progress till late 07
[15:14:16] <warren> mmcgrath, it is big, we start small
[15:14:35] <mmcgrath> thats true.
[15:15:27] <mmcgrath> What did we decide on db1?
[15:15:53] <warren> what about it?
[15:15:58] <iWolf> mmcgrath: When the Xen boxes get here I think we will be utilizing a virtualized instance.
[15:16:12] <iWolf> to help roll over to something else while db1 is rebuilt.
[15:16:30] <iWolf> and then decide if we want to replicate/cluster with the virtualized instance.
[15:17:22] <abadger1999> Do you need to get slony into Extras in order to do replication?
[15:17:46] <mmcgrath> K. We should keep maintanence in mind for this. Once we start on the cluster path for the db we'll probably need some type of acting and available dba which won't come easy.
[15:18:27] <iWolf> abadger1999: good point, jcmoore was more the cluster knowledgeable one, but yes I would imagine so.
[15:18:41] <iWolf> mmcgrath: as in who can fix it if it breaks?
[15:18:47] <xDamox> dammit I gotta shoot, anyways the status is still ongoing with the hardware tracker, the GUI is being coded and might have a beta late sept. Also the security updates on all servers are being applyed daily, and all machine require a reboot as the kernels were upgrades.
[15:19:21] <mmcgrath> iWolf: yeah.
[15:19:34] <mmcgrath> xDamonx: its cool, later.
[15:19:49] <mmcgrath> lmacken's not here but had some updates i nthe chatroom earlier
[15:19:55] <iWolf> mmcgrath: agreed, probably best to make sure at least some of the regulars are knowledgeable about the setup and document it in the wiki.
[15:20:12] <mmcgrath> [10:34:02] <lmacken> turbogears update: waiting on upstream to release plugin tarballs (they moved them out of the TG tarball during the last release)
[15:20:12] <mmcgrath> [10:35:04] <lmacken> firewall stuff: nothing new deployed. working on trying to see what is running what at the moment.
[15:20:38] <abadger1999> iWolf: There's a package for it under review but I've never used slony. If jcmasters or you want to look at it that would get it moving along.
[15:20:57] <mmcgrath> iWolf: is the dist-conf and fedora-config stuff documented on the wiki?
[15:21:19] <iWolf> mmcgrath: a fair part, people are welcome to mod if necessary.
[15:21:36] <iWolf> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/InfrastructurePrivate/DistConf
[15:21:53] <iWolf> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/InfrastructurePrivate/FedoraConfig
[15:22:05] <iWolf> The bulk of the real info is in the DistConf section.
[15:22:44] <mmcgrath> k.
[15:22:53] <iWolf> abadger1999: we'll take a look. Thanks!
[15:23:19] <mmcgrath> The backups are up and running. I've enabled compression. I'm going to add fpserv soon after some space gets freed up on lockbox.
[15:23:56] <mmcgrath> I'm going to try to make some fail soon so if we get messages to the list over the next week just ignore them.
[15:24:30] <mmcgrath> Thats all the priority 1 stuff on the list.
[15:24:45] <mmcgrath> Anyone have anything to dicuss with any of the priority 2 or 3 stuff?
[15:25:06] * mmcgrath will pause for a moment for comments before we talk about our packages and what to do with them.
[15:25:47] <iWolf> mmcgrath: it never made the list, but does that doc thing still need done you emailed about a few weeks ago?
[15:25:48] <abadger1999> Did mailing list passwords get straightened out?
[15:25:56] <iWolf> mmcgrath: tree comparison?
[15:26:25] <warren> abadger1999, you mean fedora-sysadmin list?
[15:26:29] <warren> yes in that case.
[15:26:35] <abadger1999> Yes.
[15:27:04] <warren> both mike and I have it
[15:27:21] <mmcgrath> iWolf: yes that does still need to be done.
[15:27:48] <iWolf> mmcgrath: I wouldn't mind trying to tackle that. I will email you off list for a few related questions?
[15:27:50] <mmcgrath> I was really hoping one of the new people would pick it up because its an interesting and useful project but I don't have time to give it the attention it needs.
[15:27:59] <mmcgrath> iWolf: totally take it :)
[15:28:13] <iWolf> mmcgrath: I wouldn't mind improving my Python skills and it looks like an opp for that.
[15:28:15] <mmcgrath> actually quaid is a better contact on that. I'm just a middle man at thi spoint.
[15:28:33] <mmcgrath> quaid hangs out in #fedora-docs a lot
[15:28:37] <iWolf> mmcgrath: cool, I will go from there then and see what kind of trouble I can stir up.
[15:29:02] <mmcgrath> and #108 :)
[15:29:13] <mmcgrath> excellent. He'll appreciate it.
[15:29:31] <mmcgrath> Ok, so now we need to talk about package management.
[15:29:43] <mmcgrath> Just to give those of you an idea as to whats coming from where.
[15:30:14] <mmcgrath> Back in the day there was an unwritten or written rule that in order for us to install something on our infrastructure that didn't come with the OS it had to be approved in Extras.
[15:30:38] <mmcgrath> This worked fine back when FC3 was actively maintained because most of the packages would run fine on our RHEL4(ish) OS's.
[15:31:02] <mmcgrath> Well now FC3 support is sketchy and getting new packages in it is almost out of the question though we *could* get them in there.
[15:31:25] <f13> mmcgrath: 'needed for infrastructure' is a pretty good reason to create the FC-3 branch.
[15:31:38] <warren> Do we want to entertain the option to upgrade everything to RHEL5 instead?
[15:31:40] <f13> but that only lasts so long (FC7 Test2)
[15:31:40] <mmcgrath> But what will we do after April?
[15:31:55] <mmcgrath> warren: I'm fine with that but when will it be ready?
[15:32:05] <iWolf> we just upgraded to RHEL4.... :)
[15:32:09] <f13> warren: you'll likely run into the same issue once FC6 goes EOL
[15:32:14] <warren> mmcgrath, long before April by current plans...
[15:32:24] <warren> but yes, we'll need to maintain packages anyway
[15:32:34] <f13> according to our leak, we're still comitted to having RHEL5 out the door by the end of this year
[15:33:10] <mmcgrath> k.
[15:33:33] <mmcgrath> as of right now after the db1 install our environment is pretty common. Its all FC5 or RHEL4(ish)
[15:33:39] <mmcgrath> which is nice.
[15:33:45] <mmcgrath> But here's the other question.
[15:34:05] <mmcgrath> Upgrading to RHEL5 will be 'compatable' with FC5 or 6(ish)?
[15:34:21] <warren> I say continue FC-3 branches for infrastructure purposes for now, we need to re-evaluate our options as options become available and our infrastructure itself changes.
[15:34:45] <warren> mmcgrath, reasonably so with FC5 and FC6, we're smart enough to do it.
[15:34:57] <warren> it isn't an 'officially supported' path to customers.
[15:35:32] <mmcgrath> So we're buying about a time until about November of 07?
No help available on a/about enough/.
[15:35:48] <mmcgrath> s/about a/about enough/
[15:35:56] <f13> mmcgrath: well, FC3 goes EOL when FC7 Test2 releases.
[15:36:10] <f13> roughly 6 months from now.
[15:36:13] <mmcgrath> I mean if we upgrade to RHEL5 and start using FE5/6
[15:36:16] <f13> ah
[15:36:18] <warren> It might be reasonable to target our Extras branch for longer term maintenance for RHEL5, given that our baseline for buildservers will become RHEL5.
[15:36:21] *** tibbs has left chat #fedora-admin (Remote closed the connection).
[15:36:41] <f13> mmcgrath: you're buying 2 years
[15:36:58] <f13> FC3 goes in about 6 months, FC4 in a year, FC5 in 1.5 years, FC6 in 2 years
[15:37:18] <f13> (assuming a continued 6mon release cycle)
[15:37:26] <mmcgrath> Yeah.
[15:37:44] <mmcgrath> Are you guys aware of centos.karan.org ?
[15:38:06] <iWolf> mmcgrath: yep...
[15:38:20] <mmcgrath> It'd be really nice to get something like that with a full community behind it but mostly its just z00dax at this point.
[15:38:22] *** [ me ] Command requires at least 1 arguments.
[15:38:24] *** Users on #fedora-admin: @ChanServ abadger1999 c4chris|w cweyl dgilmore dmalcolm f13 halfline iWolf jwb lmacken mmcgrath neuro_ nman64_away ossman rordway skvidal Sopwith tibbs|h warren xDamox z00dax
[15:38:41] <mmcgrath> who might be listening right now. z00dax, how much support are you getting on your repo?
[15:38:53] <mmcgrath> besides all the promised support that I've been failing on :)
[15:40:22] <dgilmore> mmcgrath: here now
[15:40:37] <mmcgrath> dgilmore: yo
[15:41:03] <mmcgrath> so anyway, our options are an RHEL5 upgrade between Jan and Mar
[15:41:25] <mmcgrath> Or we build our own repo and make sure its kept up to date.
[15:41:47] <mmcgrath> The thing I worry about the latter instance is, for example, the zope+plone instance on fpserv right now.
[15:41:55] <mmcgrath> Its in our space but I know I've been bad about verifying its up to date.
[15:42:19] <mmcgrath> I mean I know they're thinking about a totally different version anyway but if we're going to make our own packages we need to keep them up to date somehow.
[15:42:44] <iWolf> mmcgrath: some of this may go back to youre "areas of focus" ideas?
[15:43:05] <iWolf> Gives us smaller arenas to look at and keep up to date.
[15:43:19] <mmcgrath> iWolf: yeah, thats an option.
[15:43:49] <iWolf> mmcgrath: Doesn't realy make the work go away, but it does lend towards someone keeping an eye on it.
[15:43:53] <mmcgrath> to the RH peeps, is there anything like the Extra's repo out there in RH space that you guys provide to customers?
[15:44:02] <iWolf> mmcgrath: it being any myriad of things.
[15:44:14] <dgilmore+ we would need to have some infrsstructure people watching extras packages
[15:44:45] <dgilmore> work is underway for Fedora Extras to be ported to RHEL and supported for RHEL life cycles
[15:44:57] <mmcgrath> dgilmore: who's doing it?
[15:45:09] <mmcgrath> besides centos.karan.org :)
[15:45:09] <dgilmore> mmcgrath: karston is driving it
[15:45:16] <mmcgrath> oh really?
[15:45:28] <mmcgrath> figures he's not online right now to chat about it.
[15:45:35] <mmcgrath> Is there a status/project page anywhere that you know about?
[15:46:12] <dgilmore> i dont think its made much traction yet
[15:47:00] <mmcgrath> Are you talking about K. Wade?
[15:47:09] <dgilmore> mmcgrath: myeah
[15:47:22] <mmcgrath> k, we'll have to follow up with him.
[15:47:46] <mmcgrath> Sopwith: awefuly quiet over there :)
[15:48:53] <dgilmore> gday Sopwith hope you had a great trip
[15:50:07] <warren> mmcgrath, there is a public 108 discussion group for RHEL Extras
[15:50:23] <warren> I haven't seen any talk there, people might just be busy putting out fires in RHEL5
[15:51:02] <abadger1999> mmcgrath:https://extras.108.redhat.com/
[15:51:55] <mmcgrath> danke.
[15:52:30] <mmcgrath> Yeah
[15:52:58] <Sopwith> i
[15:53:00] <Sopwith> hi
[15:53:06] <Sopwith> good trip, yes, etc. etc.
[15:53:31] <Sopwith> (busy getting photos geotagged while I pretend to be here :)
[15:53:39] <mmcgrath> hah.
[15:53:49] <mmcgrath> Ok, so I'm goin gto start a thread on the list to see what others think.
[15:55:00] <dgilmore> mmcgrath: cool
[15:55:11] <mmcgrath> Anyone have anything else before we ajourn?
[15:55:23] <mmcgrath> thats not even a real word is it?
[15:55:31] <dgilmore> just wil RHEL be out for a JAn-Mar upgrade?
[15:55:37] <abadger1999> Maybe it's like "blog"
[15:55:46] <mmcgrath> according to our sources it'll be out by the end of the year
[15:55:53] <dgilmore> ok cool
[15:55:55] <dgilmore> :D
[15:56:02] <mmcgrath> we may have to re-visit this when the time comes closer.
[15:56:10] <dgilmore> i would say so
[15:56:31] <dgilmore> i would nearly say lets not upgrade RHEL 4 systems unless we really need to
[15:56:58] <mmcgrath> k.
[15:57:00] <dgilmore> if we need python 2.4 for something would be a good reason to do so
[15:57:23] <warren> it makes more sense to use RHEL5 only after it is released
[15:57:41] <dgilmore> though i need to spend some time and work on a python24 package for RHEL4 that will live side by side with python2.3
[15:57:43] <warren> except in cases where new features are needed
[15:59:09] <abadger1999> dgilmore: You also need to install a bunch of addon modules to do useful things.
[15:59:21] <mmcgrath> k.
[15:59:40] <mmcgrath> Anyone else have anything before we close the meeting?
[16:00:47] <mmcgrath> Alright, meeting closed.
