Re: Changing file system for Cloud images to ext4, xfs or something custom

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On Wed, 2024-04-10 at 11:22 -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 10:54 AM Tadej Janež <tadej.j@xxxxxx> wrote:
> > 
> > On Tue, 2024-04-09 at 10:00 -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > > On Tue, Apr 9, 2024 at 9:53 AM Tadej Janež <tadej.j@xxxxxx>
> > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > Hey Fedora Cloud WG!
> > > > 
> > > > Firstly, thanks for providing Fedora for the popular cloud
> > > > providers!
> > > > 
> > > > Since Fedora 35, the Fedora Cloud images use btrfs by default
> > > > [1].
> > > > For my deployments, I would like to use ext4 or xfs, so my
> > > > question
> > > > are:
> > > > 1) Is it possible to change the root file system at deploy
> > > > time?
> > > > 2) If not, how could one change the cloud images to use a
> > > > different
> > > > root file system?
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > It is not possible to change at deployment time, you would need
> > > to
> > > build your own custom images.
> > > 
> > 
> > Ok, thanks for clarifying!
> > 
> > > Our images are now defined here:
> > > https://pagure.io/fedora-kiwi-descriptions/blob/rawhide/f/teams/cloud/cloud.xml
> > > 
> > > If you want to use something else, you'd want to have your own
> > > version
> > > of the definitions and modify that file to use the filesystem of
> > > your
> > > choice.
> > 
> > I see, one would need to modify the "filesystem" key of the
> > selected
> > Cloud-Base-<provider> image.
> > 
> > Are there instructions on how to build a custom cloud image?
> > 
> 
> The repository README includes a quickstart section for building your
> own images.
> 
> > However, even if I can easily build a custom cloud image, the
> > overhead
> > of maintaining custom cloud images is very high.
> > 
> > For every Fedora release and cloud provider, I would need to build
> > the
> > image and then with IaC (e.g. Terraform), handle uploading the
> > custom
> > image and using it...
> > 
> 
> Yeah, it is more overhead, for sure.
> 

Thinking out loud... the modification in my case would not be a custom
tailored image for my use case but more similar to how Fedora project
builds different spins if people want to use a non-GNOME desktop
environment or ALT images for people using alternative architectures.

Is there a possibility to reuse the existing image building
infrastructure and add tasks for building images with e.g. ext4 as the
rootfs?

> > > 
> > > Is there a particular reason you want to use ext4 or xfs for your
> > > rootfs? Typically the pattern we see is that people attach a
> > > secondary
> > > volume or use S3 and put their data on that instead of the
> > > rootfs.
> > > 
> > 
> > Yes, I use that pattern as well. Usually, /srv or /var would be on
> > a
> > separate block storage and formatted with the file system of
> > choice.
> > 
> > The reasons why I would want to use, e.g. ext4 for the rootfs,
> > would
> > be:
> > 
> > 1. Familiarity. I've mainly been using ext4 or LVM+ext4 (with LUKS
> > underneath) for the last 2 decades. I know the tools and I know
> > what
> > "care" such filesystems need.
> > 
> > 2. Maturity. Ext2/3/4 have been round for quite longer than btrfs
> > and
> > there are very little "unknowns" or "surprises" with it.
> > 
> > 3. Simplicity. When provisioning machines with a cloud provider, I
> > actually don't need the LVM+ext4 combination because the cloud
> > provider
> > would typically handle the things LVM would handle for a non-cloud
> > machine, e.g. increasing the block storage size, snapshotting, ...
> > 
> > Please, don't read this as a critique against btrfs, just me trying
> > to
> > explain why I would find it nicer to just use ext4 for the rootfs
> > as
> > well.
> > 
> 
> That's totally fair. I will point out that one of the big reasons we
> use Btrfs is actually to enable space efficiency (which can lead to
> cost savings across the board). The used storage is roughly 40% less
> than on ext4 due to leveraging both transparent compression and
> reflinks.
> 
> The other reason is to make it easy to do replication for backups and
> other purposes.
> 
> You may also find it to be beneficial for easily avoiding certain
> kinds of failure cases that can happen on ext4 (such as inode
> exhaustion with containers), since btrfs dynamically allocates inodes
> per subvolume.
> 
> You can also grow (and shrink!) the volume live while the system is
> mounted and online safely.
> 

Thanks for enumerating these benefits. And I agree that these benefits
alone justify the reason for switching to btrfs by default.

I might be tempted to check out the btrfs status page again and start
playing with it.

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