On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Gordan Bobic <gordan@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On 10/11/2012 10:51 AM, Peter Robinson wrote: >> >> On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Gordan Bobic<gordan@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> >>> On 10/10/2012 05:55 PM, Derek Atkins wrote: >>> >>>>>>> Hi Folks, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm interested to know who is using Kirkwood, and who would miss it >>>>>>> if >>>>>>> it went away. For now, we won't kill off ARMv5 because it is used in >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> official rPi builds but that doesn't mean I'm not interested to know >>>>>>> whether we should put testing effort into Kirkwood for F18. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My thought is that the latest plugs are moving to ARMv7, and so as >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> cutting edge Linux distro, we should make plans for deprecating >>>>>>> support >>>>>>> over the coming releases. This is not a call to drop support today. >>>>>>> If >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> can get numbers on how many people care, that will help. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> All my Arm devices are Kirkwoods, including Sheeva and Guru Plug >>>>>> devices, and I was considering acquiring some Dreamplug devices, too. >>>>>> I >>>>>> use them in production (with Fedora), and honestly I'd feel very put >>>>>> out >>>>>> if Fedora dropped support for them. I know a bunch of other people >>>>>> who >>>>>> have other kirkwood devices, too. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If you read the full thread it's not about dropping the support in the >>>>> short term. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I did read the thread, but our definitions of "short term" appear to be >>>> different. The thread appeared to be a question of support for F18 or >>>> F19. IMNSHO I feel Kirkwood support should probably remain until, oh, >>>> F25 or 26, at a minimum. There are just too many (IMHO) Kirkwoods out >>>> in production. >>> >>> >>> >>> More to the point, they are still being made and sold in reasonable >>> quantity. >>> >>> >>>>>> I know that RPi looks interesting, but they are still very hard to >>>>>> acquire. (Limit 1, then wait a few months??) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> That's no longer the case. In most cases I believe it should now be >>>>> relatively instant shipping and they're certainly no longer limited to >>>>> single unit. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Glad to hear that. However I'm loathe to throw away my investment of >>>> Kirkwoods. I cannot answer you how many others bought them. Have you >>>> tried asking them for approximate numbers? >>> >>> >>> >>> 512MB of usable RAM on a SheevaPlug is also a lot easier to live with >>> than >>> 192MB of usable RAM on the Pi. >>> >>> If the VIA APC was cited as an alternative, then maybe I could almost get >>> behind that in due course (512MB of RAM, *TX form factor). But running >>> one >>> of the default desktop environments with a browser that actually works >>> reasonably well for most commonly used websites (i.e. not Midori) in >>> 192MB >>> of RAM? While swapping to an average SD card? Do be serious. >> >> >> I've never said 192Mb of RAM is reasonable so I think you'll find I'm >> completely serious, but then neither is 512Mb. With devices like the >> cubieboard, gooseberry, wandboard and numerous others coming out with >> 1Gb of RAM I personally don't see the kirkwood nor the RPi as any for >> of serious. What's more the cubieboard will be only $14 more than the >> RPi. > > > Two points: > 1) If that's what you think, I'd really like to stop seeing the Pi as an > excuse for dropping or including anything and pandering to it. Believe me I'm not pandering to the RPi _AT_ALL_ so again your point is completely boundless and useless. > 2) 500MB-ish of RAM is actually enough for a decent user experience. I am a > daily user of a Toshiba AC100, and use it daily with KDE as my desktop > environment and Firefox as my browser. With 480MB of RAM, the experience is > comfortable. With a few tweaks the experience stretches to pleasant: > http://www.altechnative.net/2012/01/04/alleviating-memory-pressure-on-toshiba-ac100/ Great! We're not talking about dropping support for the AC100. I have one as well that one day I'll get the time to configure to my liking. > >>>>>> The x86 port still supports a Pentium, I don't see any reason to drop >>>>>> support for kirkwood. Is it really that much extra effort? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It is surprisingly quite a lot of effort. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Oh? Could you elaborate on that? What "quite a lot of effort" does it >>>> take? >>> >>> >>> >>> From my experience of rolling a similar distribution, if the kernel code >>> works as it's supposed to, a day or so of tweaking the configs, followed >>> by >>> about a day of compiling (in a 1.2GHz Kirkwood). >>> >>> If there are issues? Much longer because the compile takes so long.bich.net> wrote: > On 10/11/2012 10:51 AM, Peter Robinson wrote: >> >> >> I don't have 2 days to spare to deal with that. If someone else does >> that is absolutely fabulous. I'm yet to see them actually step up to >> the plate and do the work. Clearly you're not interested in doing any >> work what so ever, I've not actually seen a contribution from you at >> all. > > > I've had an issue with the attitude for pursuing the bleeding edge in Fedora > for a while - that's why I decided to roll a different distribution. That's fine, you're free to take your toys along with your opinions and play in what ever sand pit you wish. > When most of your bug reports expire due to the release running EOL it > rather puts a downer on the motivation to bother contributing with the goal > posts moving so fast at the expense of stability. Do your bugs get fixed any quicker in your sandpit? No, unless you fix them yourself. Same outcome really! _______________________________________________ arm mailing list arm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/arm
