On Sun, Nov 15, 2020 at 02:53:02PM -0300, Eduard Lucena wrote: > Hi, > > That is fairly unfortunate. I don't see how it could bring greater > > participation, only less. It's harder to use Discord than a mail client. > > Everyone has a mail client. Everyone uses email. Not everyone can work that > > clunky UI or get mail to Discourse to work to begin with. > > > > Discord is not in the play. It's "Discourse" [1][2][3] a discussion > platform, not a IM client. >From what I see around various moves to discourse, not all were successful. For example, the various SIGs that move to discussion.fp.o seems to have stalled: https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/c/sigs/rpm-packaging/17 https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/c/sigs/rust/16 And I can't say really say that the numbers are impressive for bigger categories either, especially for something here since ~2 years. And that's not just Fedora, since GNOME has also a instance: https://discourse.gnome.org/ and the traffic seems quite low after a few months of being a novelty. So I do not feel changing the platform always bring more people long term. Since earlier mails speak of increased engagement, do we have a numerical target at least to decide what would be a success (like, how much people using it in how much time) ? Regarding Matrix, I am all to replace IRC (as a protocol at least, I still think most clients besides irssi are terribly inefficient for my professional usage), but the current state of the matrix ecosystem make me think that this will requires a bit of sustained effort all accross the stack to make it easier to use for all people before any serious move unless we keep IRC as a option. I am running my own server (Synapse on Fedora 33 in a DC), and compared to a typical packaged software in the same space (Prosody in my case), the setup was a bit a chore. Documentation was a bit scattered (not SMTP stack level of scattered, but not great for a 1 single server stack), and synapse is working, but still has rough edge. For example, I stumbled on https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse/issues/3294 due to a / at the wrong place (and not exactly the most helpful message in log). The setup of DNS + SSL cert + /.well-known was a chore (and this regressed from 2 years ago, where the acme negociation was done by synapse). The whole move to E2EE room was also a bit botched, since for example, fractal is not able to connect to some rooms until https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/fractal/-/merge_requests/626 is merged. I have been told of a workaround, but that's not exactly going in the right direction. So I kinda feel that for now, Matrix would either result in people using the same server/client (e.g., everybody on matrix.org like now), or restrict discussion on people who are experts in server setup (which is ok for me, but that's my job) or would requires CPE to provides a server, either self hosted, or hosted somewhere. Given the current bi weekly release cadence (https://github.com/matrix-org/synapse/tags), self hosting would result in a rather big strain on sysadmins time. For my own stuff, I do not care about being super up to date and fix all CVEs so I use the Fedora package, but I guess that if I was facing GDPR fines due to having lots of users, I would surely change my mind Which leave us with paid hosting is the solution, which also bring to my last point. I was speaking this morning with GNome folks of their plann for irc/matrix integration: https://gitlab.gnome.org/Teams/Engagement/initiatives/chat-evaluation/-/issues/10 Thibault told me this morning that he was trying to get someone to pay the last 5k € for fixing the bridges. Given the state of the ecosystem, I think a irc/matrix bridge is the way to go, and so if Fedora has some money to get the project going faster (cause I assume we would go for paid hosting), pooling efforts with GNOME could be a solution. -- Michael Scherer _______________________________________________ council-discuss mailing list -- council-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to council-discuss-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/council-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
