On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 04:40:50PM -0700, Stephen John Smoogen wrote: > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 21:50, Toshio Kuratomi <a.badger@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 11:27:23PM -0500, Max Spevack wrote: > >> On Wed, 17 Nov 2010, Max Spevack wrote: > >> > >> > * Someone said this to me the other day, and I can't remember whom, > >> > sorry. Speak up if you're the smart one. The Fedora Board should meet > >> > face to face for a few days twice per year. Those days should be > >> > organized in advance using FAD best practices, and they should be > >> > intensive working sessions where the Board lays out and advances most > >> > of its agenda for the coming chunk of time. The Fedora Project has > >> > sufficient budget to enable this. > >> > >> Hey new board, > >> > >> Any thoughts on this? > >> > > I'm too new to know but.... what would the Board hope to achieve at these > > sessions? To me, an ideal Board would work by creating consensus for an > > initiative among the people who are needed to do any work to make the idea > > a reality... that portion of the Board's work would be better done in > > non-Board-oriented FADs. Laying out at a high level what the Board wants to > > see accomplished might be one thing that could happen at a FAD. But is that > > any better accomplished in person than via email/phone/IRC? If we're > > exploring an idea in depth, I can see that being the case.. but perhaps we > > should decide that we need to meet in person on those on a case-by-case > > basis just like any other FAD? > > > > Once again, I'm new here, so I don't know whether the Board would benefit > > from a recurring in-person meeting, I just don't have a clear idea of what > > we'd want to achieve by meeting. > > The main things I believe we need to work out face-to-face is beyond > the board. A face to face with FESCO+FAMSCO+Board to iron out a better > governance and charter so that we can give clearer direction. I have > seen multiple meetings all around where one group (FYYY) says "Oh cool > we should do this" and others say "Wait isnt that FXXX job really to > do that sort of thing?" and the reply back of "Well I guess but w e > can at least .... " which usually starts a longer and larger pain > train as FXXX thinks FYYY is a make work group and FYYY wonders why > FXXX is just pushing back. Or you have something where FYYY should do > something but things it should get FXXX's approval, look, guidance, > etc and what comes back after a long delay is "What just do whatever" > which then somehow soon goes to a variation of the first part. > > 1) Face to face meetings are needed because non-facial communication > only scales so well and we have no clue if the other person is > throwing monkey poo, being funny, or not realizing that asking for a > modest proposal on Irish babies is rather tasteless. > > 2) A formal charter of some sort is needed because what we have as a > wiki and some documents does not scale for larger than 60-120 people. > After that size some human brain automatically makes some other person > a non-entity at some point in the conversation and people have no idea > where they stand. It doesn't matter if the people know and work next > to each other.. once their brains start taking in the fact that their > overall group is larger than X (where X is some built in variable per > human brain) they require more formalized rules. > > Basically, people who want less rules and bureaucracy can only get > away with it in smaller groups. At some size we don't scale complexity > linearly any more and it all goes to hell. [Humans suck for community > building.. but they won't fund my T7000 project to replace them.] > I could definitely go for this. it is though, rather than a bi-yearly meeting, an in depth FAD on Governance. So I still don't know that we should arbitrarily say that we should meet every six months but this sounds like a good topic to hold a FAD on. -Toshio
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