On Fri, May 08, 2009 at 08:30:46PM +0200, Christoph Wickert wrote: > Am Freitag, den 08.05.2009, 13:13 -0500 schrieb Mike McGrath: > > On Fri, 8 May 2009, Christoph Wickert wrote: > > > > Refer to: > > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Trademark_license_agreement > > > > > > Is this all you have to say about it? If so, you are proving what I > > > wrote previously: "Things like these are hard to understand. There might > > > be good reasons, but IMO the board does a bad job ATM in communicating > > > their views to the outside world." > > > > > > > I can't speak for the board but I'm pretty sure you're confusing legal > > constraints with the boards view. > > Probably, but the problem is that the board does not outline it's view > but only hands out a contract to sign. Actually, it's important to recall here that Red Hat is the owner of the Fedora trademarks, and the Board is entrusted with helping to oversee their use. As written on the trademark guidelines page, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal:Trademark_guidelines : "Red Hat enlists the assistance of the Fedora Project Board (hereinafter "Board") to oversee the trademark guidelines to ensure compliance by the community. The Board may grant permission for uses as explained below. The Board serves as the first line of mediation when questions of use arise." I am serving a dual purpose here, both as a liaison with Red Hat Legal on matters of trademark, and also reporting to the Board with information that will help in providing the oversight with which they're entrusted. > > > You cannot expect someone to sign a > > > contract if he doesn't even understand it's content. > > > > > > > I'd strongly recommend if you find anything you don't understand to > > discuss it with your lawyer. > > So, a valuable community member (no, not me) who already spends a lot of > time and money on Fedora even needs to pay for a lawyer? Even the lawyer > will advise you not to sign anything but to get a certified translation > first. People are waiting for that translation for months now. Not at all -- in fact, I continue to be available to answer specific questions about the language or the import of any part of the agreement. I've done this already for several people, and would be happy to continue to do so. Translations are, unfortunately, a non-trivial problem, because as the agreement states, the original English version is the canonical text. It is written in a specific way to conform to a long history of case law (beyond just Red Hat, of course). In translation, it is possible -- even when a translation is done by an attorney -- to introduce inconsistencies and confusion. And in that event, any advice received about the translation could be affected. There is only one person that I know of waiting for a translation, and as I informed him, I do not believe Red Hat is going to undertake the cost for that translation and certification. I suppose it would be possible for the Fedora Project to pay for that, but how many languages would we need to do this for? All of them? And what would we then have to cut from our spending to pay for such a translation? I think if there are concrete questions about the intent or meaning of anything in the agreement, we can freely discuss it here. Most of the language is fairly standard and, as I've explained to everyone who has requested or received it, is not designed to trick or damage anyone. The agreement represents a fair way of both: * giving the community much wider latitude than with the previous Fedora trademark guidelines, and * ensuring that the rights of the trademark owner are also preserved The work that the community does to promote Fedora over time using the trademarks has created much of the value in the Fedora brand. That is why I partnered with Red Hat Legal to substantially liberalize our trademark guidelines. They now reflect much more of the realistic uses to which the community puts the trademarks to grow the reputation and brand of Fedora. But it's also important to realize that when we associate ourselves with the Fedora trademark, we are entrusted with that value, and benefit from it ourselves. The agreement seeks to balance the value that each individual licensee derives from the trademarks with Red Hat's responsibility to the rest of the community (and its stakeholders) to preserve that value for continued use by others. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug _______________________________________________ fedora-advisory-board mailing list fedora-advisory-board@xxxxxxxxxx http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-advisory-board
