Re: Journal message timestamps

[Dave Howorth <systemd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Fri, 4 Sep 2020 17:59:02 +0200
Lennart Poettering <lennart@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Do, 27.08.20 11:33, Mark Corbin (mark@xxxxxxxxxxxx) wrote:
> 
> > Hello
> >
> > I am working on time synchronisation issues at boot for systems
> > without an RTC (using balenaOS on a Raspberry Pi 3) and have some
> > questions about how journald assigns timestamps to log messages.
> >
> > When I boot my system and look at the journal I see an initial
> > date/time for kernel messages, e.g. '1 June 2020 10:00:00' followed
> > by messages with the 'correct' date/time once the system time has
> > been set from another source, e.g. build time, NTP, etc. This means
> > that over several reboots I have lots of sets of log messages from
> > 1 June 2020 which understandably confuses the 'journalctl
> > --list-boots' command. I found an issue that describes the problem
> > here https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/662 and had assumed
> > that there wasn't anything I could do about this.
> >
> > However, when running some tests on a board with Raspberry Pi OS I
> > found that it didn't suffer from the same problem. RPI OS uses a
> > 'fake-hwclock' service to restore the previous boot time from a
> > file and this time gets applied to all messages in the journal
> > prior to this point. I added the 'fake-hwclock' service to my
> > system which resulted in the timestamps being correct the majority
> > of the time, but I was still seeing some boots where the initial
> > messages were showing '1 June 2020'. I eventually tracked the
> > intermittent behaviour down to whether the 'fake-hwclock' time
> > setting occurred in the same system log file as the initial kernel
> > boot messages. On my RPI OS board the runtime journal was set to
> > 8MB, so the date/time setting always occurred in the first journal
> > file. On my system the runtime journal was set to 4MB, so the
> > date/time setting was sometimes happening in the second journal
> > file leaving the messages in the first file with a date of '1 June
> > 2020'.
> >
> > So my questions are...
> >
> > It seems that journald is using the date/time from the
> > 'fake-hwclock' service to update the timestamps of earlier log
> > messages within the same file. Is this correct?  
> 
> No. We do not retroactively change written out records.
> 
> However, when comparing log entries we prefer the record sequence
> number if two records come from the same system. And if that doesn't
> work, then we prefer monotonic clocks if two records cme from the same
> boot. Wallclock is only used for comparing two records if they are
> from different boots altogether.
> 
> > What would be the best technique for ensuring that my journal logs
> > always display the 'best' time for log messages (either
> > 'fake-hwclock' or NTP)? Do I always have to ensure that the journal
> > is large enough to capture my initial time setting event in the
> > first file?  
> 
> There's no nice answer for that. We do not patch written out journal
> records once they are written. They are considered immutable. This
> means, from the journal's PoV if you generated a bunch of records in
> the initrd or early boot (i.e. before /var/log/journal is available)
> and you have no usable wallclock time, and you power cycle 10 times
> in a row, then we have no indication about which of the 10 series of
> recrods came in which order before the others.
> 
> To fix that we'd have to keep a separate log of boot ids or so
> somewhere, which we could use as auxiliary source of truth if all we
> have are bootids+monotonic time which came first by comparing boot
> ids. But that would still not be perfect since we could write that out
> only late (i.e. after /var becomes writable), so the order before that
> could not be reconstructed either if the system doesn't get that far.
> 
> Also see:
> 
> https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/662
> 
> > Any general details about how journald applies timestamps would
> > also be greatly appreciated.  
> 
> (btw, systemd-timesyncd does what fake-hwclock does automatically, and
> also does SNTP. it should be fine for most usecases, no need to resort
> to fake-hwclock)
> 
> Lennart

This is a serious problem for anybody running a raspberry pi (i.e.
many, many thousands of people.) I suggest buying one for yourself and
actually experiencing the issues to understand what the problem is and
why people would like to see a solution.

I'll send you the dollars if that's really a problem.
_______________________________________________
systemd-devel mailing list
systemd-devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/systemd-devel