On Thu, Feb 24, 2022 at 04:08:30PM +0800, Feng Tang wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 03:23:20PM +0100, Rafael J. Wysocki wrote:
> > On Wed, Feb 23, 2022 at 1:40 AM Feng Tang <feng.tang@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Tue, Feb 22, 2022 at 04:32:29PM -0800, srinivas pandruvada wrote:
> > > > Hi Doug,
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 2022-02-22 at 16:07 -0800, Doug Smythies wrote:
> > > > > Hi All,
> > > > >
> > > > > I am about 1/2 way through testing Feng's "hacky debug patch",
> > > > > let me know if I am wasting my time, and I'll abort. So far, it
> > > > > works fine.
> > > > This just proves that if you add some callback during long idle, you
> > > > will reach a less aggressive p-state. I think you already proved that
> > > > with your results below showing 1W less average power ("Kernel 5.17-rc3
> > > > + Feng patch (6 samples at 300 sec per").
> > > >
> > > > Rafael replied with one possible option. Alternatively when planing to
> > > > enter deep idle, set P-state to min with a callback like we do in
> > > > offline callback.
> > >
> > > Yes, if the system is going to idle, it makes sense to goto a lower
> > > cpufreq first (also what my debug patch will essentially lead to).
> > >
> > > Given cprfreq-util's normal running frequency is every 10ms, doing
> > > this before entering idle is not a big extra burden.
> >
> > But this is not related to idle as such, but to the fact that idle
> > sometimes stops the scheduler tick which otherwise would run the
> > cpufreq governor callback on a regular basis.
> >
> > It is stopping the tick that gets us into trouble, so I would avoid
> > doing it if the current performance state is too aggressive.
>
> I've tried to simulate Doug's environment by using his kconfig, and
> offline my 36 CPUs Desktop to leave 12 CPUs online, and on it I can
> still see Local timer interrupts when there is no active load, with
> the longest interval between 2 timer interrupts is 4 seconds, while
> idle class's task_tick_idle() will do nothing, and CFS'
> task_tick_fair() will in turn call cfs_rq_util_change()
Every four seconds? Could you please post your .config?
Thanx, Paul
> I searched the cfs/deadline/rt code, these three classes all have
> places to call cpufreq_update_util(), either in enqueue/dequeue or
> changing running bandwidth. So I think entering idle also means the
> system load is under a big change, and worth calling the cpufreq
> callback.
>
> > In principle, PM QoS can be used for that from intel_pstate, but there
> > is a problem with that approach, because it is not obvious what value
> > to give to it and it is not always guaranteed to work (say when all of
> > the C-states except for C1 are disabled).
> >
> > So it looks like a new mechanism is needed for that.
>
> If you think idle class is not the right place to solve it, I can
> also help testing new patches.
>
> Thanks,
> Feng
>
