----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas Gleixner" <tglx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > To: "Sarah Sharp" <sarah.a.sharp@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Cc: "Linus Torvalds" <torvalds@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Ingo Molnar" <mingo@xxxxxxxxxx>, "Guenter Roeck" > <linux@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Greg Kroah-Hartman" <gregkh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Steven Rostedt" <rostedt@xxxxxxxxxxx>, > "Dave Jones" <davej@xxxxxxxxxx>, "Linux Kernel Mailing List" <linux-kernel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Andrew Morton" > <akpm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "stable" <stable@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "Darren Hart" <dvhart@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2013 8:42:16 AM > Subject: Re: [ 00/19] 3.10.1-stable review > > On Mon, 15 Jul 2013, Sarah Sharp wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 12:07:56PM -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote: > > > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Sarah Sharp > > > <sarah.a.sharp@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > > > Bullshit. I've seen you be polite, and explain to clueless maintainers > > > > why there's no way you can revert their merge that caused regressions, > > > > and ask them to fit it without resorting to tearing them down > > > > emotionally: > > > > > > Oh, I'll be polite when it's called for. > > > > > > But when people who know better send me crap, I'll curse at them. > > > > > > I suspect you'll notice me cursing *way* more at top developers than > > > random people on the list. I expect more from them, and conversely > > > I'll be a lot more upset when they do something that I really think > > > was not great. > > > > > > For example, my latest cursing explosion was for the x86 maintainers, > > > and it comes from the fact that I *know* they know to do better. The > > > x86 tip pulls have generally been through way more testing than most > > > other pulls I get (not just compiling, but even booting randconfigs > > > etc). So when an x86 pull request comes in that clearly missed that > > > expected level of quality, I go to town. > > > > > Good lord. So anyone that is one of your "top maintainers" could be > > exposed to your verbal abuse just because they "should have known > > better"? > > I'm one of the "victims" of Linus' latest "verbal abuse". :) > > Just for the record. I got grilled by Linus several times over the > last years and I can't remember a single instance where it was > unjustified. When I see such a mail in my inbox, I know that I fucked > up royally and all I do is to figure out what I broke this time and > fix it. I don't give a rat's ass about his "abusive" language. See > below. > > > exposed to your verbal abuse just because they "should have known > > better"? > > You know what "should have known better" stands for? > > It stands for violating trust. > > Linus simply has to trusts his top level maintainers, because he > cannot review, audit and check 10k patches which flow into his tree > every merge window himself. > > So if he finds out that someone who has his ultimate trust sends him a > pile of crap, he tells that person in his own unmisunderstandable way > that he's not amused. > > > You know what the definition of an abuser is? Someone that seeks out > > victims that they know will "just take it" and keep the abuse "between > > the two of them". They pick victims that won't fight back or report the > > abuse. > > IOW, I'm a typical victim of abuse. > > Let me clarify that. > > The person who gets away with picking me for this kind of abuse has > not been born yet. And Linus knows very well, that he gets the full > pack back from me (in some different form of "abusive language") if he > yelled at me for no reason. It's documented out there including his > apologies. > > So if you talk about abuse, then you need an abuser and a victim. So > your argumentation falls flat because there is no victim. Could victim be someone else in the future since it is an example that people may follow? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvio_Berlusconi_underage_prostitution_charges It called "abuse of office" or abuse of the power. > > I do not care about his swear words and rants at all, because I know > that it makes him feel better. > > That's a cultural thing. > > Where I grew up it's part of the culture to explode, let off steam and > then go and have a beer together. I strongly believe this prevents > gastric ulcer and keeps you honest. Linus and I have this kind of > relationship. We respect each other, we trust each other and when one > side fucks up we yell at each other and then meet at the bar for a > drink. > > Linus did NOT abuse me in his latest rant. He simply told me in a very > strong language that he's grumpy because I violated his trust. And > that's legitimate. It's also legitimate to do that in public because > it documents that the top level maintainers are not impeccable. And it > sets a clear expectation bar for those who want to become maintainers > of any level. > > Aside of that I completely agree with Linus, that this policital > correctness crusades are merily creating more subtle and hard to fight > forms of real abuse. > > I observe that every other day in big corporates, which have written > down code of conducts and a gazillion of rules for interaction; they > just foster dishonesty and other fallacies. > > I really prefer the honest slap from Linus than dealing with people > who signed and "comply" to some code of conduct and stab you in your > back wherever they can. > > If you can point me to a single instance of Linus "abusing" someone > who is not one of his trusted persons, who really should be able to > deal with that, or someone who did not provoke him to go into rant > mode, then I'm all on your side. > > Aside of that, I agree that Linus could achieve the same effect by > using a different (more palatable to you) language, but that's a > different story. > > > Thanks, > > tglx > -- > To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe stable" in > the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe stable" in the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html