On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:27:09PM +0400, James Bottomley wrote: > On Mon, 2013-07-15 at 15:38 -0700, Linus Torvalds wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Steven Rostedt <rostedt@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > > > Can we please make this into a Kernel Summit discussion. I highly doubt > > > we would solve anything, but it certainly would be a fun segment to > > > watch :-) > > > > I think we should, because I think it's the kind of thing we really > > need at the KS - talking about "process". > > Can you formulate the process issue to discuss? I've heard "Linus needs > to yell less at people" and "the mailing lists need to be more > 'professional'" neither of which seems to identify an actual process. > Are we perhaps discussing guidelines for giving feedback on patches? > > > At the same time, I really don't know what the format would possibly > > be like for it to really work as a reasonable discussion. And I think > > that is important, because this kind of subject is *not* likely > > possible in the traditional "people sit around tables and maybe > > somebody has a few slides" format. > > > A small panel discussion with a few people (fiveish?) that have very > > different viewpoints, along with baskets of rotten fruit set out on > > the tables? That could be fun. And I'm serious, although we might want > > to limit the size of the fruit to smaller berries ;) > > How about Lychees? They're prickly on the outside, very wet on the > inside and have large stones ... They taste good, too. > But what are the viewpoints? "maintainers need to yell more"? > "maintainers need to yell less"? I don't think I agree with either. > I'm perfectly happy to run linux-scsi along reasonable standards of > civility and try to keep the debates technical, but that's far easier to > do on a low traffic list; obviously, I realise that style of argument > doesn't suit everyone, so it's not a standard of behaviour I'd like to > see universally imposed. In fact, I've got to say that I wouldn't like > to see *any* behaviour standard imposed ... they're all basically cover > for power plays (or soon get abused as power plays); the only real way > to display leadership on behaviour standards is by example not by fiat. OK, I am stupid enough to take a stab at this... 1. Does the Linux kernel community's health depend on the occasional rant? [My guess is that we simply have no way of knowing. That said, I would be interested in hearing specific examples of open-source communities that are as doing as well as is the Linux community and that live within stricter social mores. Cue arguments about exactly what "doing well" means...] 2. Could the Linux kernel community's health be improved by banning the occasional rant? [Again, I don't believe that we have any way of knowing.] 3. Is there some reasonable way to accommodate a wide range of styles of interaction within the Linux community? [I hope that the answer is "yes", but it probably becomes impossible if you add the qualifier "that everyone is happy with".] 4. If there is some reasonable way to accommodate a wide range of styles of interaction within the Linux community, can this be done globally, or does this require that people who prefer a specific style confine themselves to portions of the community that practice that specific style? [As I grow older, I become increasingly pessimistic about the possibility of keeping everyone happy, but who knows?] For whatever it is worth... Thanx, Paul > James > > > _______________________________________________ > Ksummit-2013-discuss mailing list > Ksummit-2013-discuss@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ksummit-2013-discuss > -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe stable" in the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html