Patrick, Please assume an analogy between filesystem and database management system. When we try to access information stored within a certain object managed by these systems (being called 'object manager'), we send a request to the object manager, it handles the request, then it returns a result. In the case of filesystem, we send a request as a system call. Then, it checks privileges of the caller based on both of DAC/MAC policy. The filesystem asks SELinux its access control decision via LSM hooks, then SELinux replies either allowed or denied. If allowed, the filesystem handles rest of steps; such as reading contents of the specified filesystem object. Don't you think it is similar to something? In the case of database management system, we send a request as a SQL. Then, it checks privileges of the caller based on both of DAC/MAC policy. The SE-PostgreSQL asks SELinux its access control decision via libselinux interface. Note that SE-PostgreSQL module is also called via security hooks in PostgreSQL. Then, SELinux replies either allowed or denied. If allowed, the database management system handles rest of steps; such as updating contents of the specified database object. See, the page.8 of: http://sepgsql.googlecode.com/files/PGcon2010-KaiGai-LAPP_SELinux.pdf The point is that SELinux always makes access control decision from the viewpoint of MAC policy. It enables to keep consistency in access control decision; ideally, independent from the way to store information assets. > I do not still get it, so you are going to introduce and add Mandatory > Access Control in PostgreSQL ? Yes. SELinux provides MAC policy. SE-PostgreSQL makes access control decision based on SELinux. Thus, SE-PostgreSQL provides MAC. > So when database users are created by admins or design or such, what > SE-PostgreSQL is supposed to do?, preventing users to bypass their privileges? > or bypassing security of the DBMS engines? (the latter can already be > achieved using SELinux) Even if SE-PostgreSQL is installed, existing database privilege mechanism is still working. These features makes its access control decision independently each other. Also note that, SE-PostgreSQL acquires security context of the peer process to apply it as privilege of the client. Its access control decision is not affected by database users, even if database superuser. > since PostgreSQL is process based (not thread based) per connection, what > is it saved? by not isolating Databases (DBMS) totally from each other and > having multiple instances rather than just introducing another level of > access control mechanism? It seems to me you believe the scope of SELinux is limited to data objects managed by kernel features. Every instances are allowed to access database files, but these instances voluntary controls execution of the given SQL based on MAC policy. Sorry, I'm not clear where is your point. Does my introduction help you to understand? Thanks, (2010/12/09 9:33), cto@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote: > KaiGai, > > I do not still get it, so you are going to introduce and add Mandatory Access Control in PostgreSQL ? > > I still don't get its practical application, since obviously at system level DAC is not sufficient users have other means of bypassing it, ie. can set things that results in undesired behavior and security breach such as chmod 777, or out of context > memory pages > > So when database users are created by admins or design or such, what SE-PostgreSQL is supposed to do?, preventing users to bypass their privileges? or bypassing security of the DBMS engines? (the latter can already be achieved using SELinux) > > or to give people possibility of "Creating access" controls then put MAC into practice not to let them to create insecure access !! why we have to give them such grant of privilege at first place in DBMS > > > Or the goal is access control being derived from SELinux Policies (external sources)? > > in current implementations of a secure database, an external module (Program) can add or remove or delete records to or from the database and being moderated by SELinux for MAC and sandboxing purposes > > since PostgreSQL is process based (not thread based) per connection, what is it saved? by not isolating Databases (DBMS) totally from each other and having multiple instances rather than just introducing another level of access control mechanism? > > Complexity is the enemy of Security. > > Would you mind to shed some light on this. > > Thanks > > Patrick K. > > > On 12/8/2010 6:41 PM, KaiGai Kohei wrote: >> (2010/12/09 0:29), Ted Toth wrote: >>> Thanks for the update. Questions inline. >>> >>> 2010/12/7 KaiGai Kohei<kaigai@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>: >>>> I'd like to report the recent status of SE-PostgreSQL development, >>>> since I guess few number of people subscribing pgsql-hackers list. >>>> >>>> Now, the pgsql community is working on new features to the upcoming >>>> v9.1 releases. Although we don't come up the feature freeze yet, >>>> several fundamental features to support selinux are already merged, >>>> and these shall be released within the v9.1 release. >>>> >>>> The v9.1 of pgsql shall support label based mandatory access control >>>> by external security providers. >>>> The external security provider is a similar concept to LSM. >>>> It allows plugin modules to make access control decision based on >>>> its access control model such as SELinux, and the core pgsql calls >>>> the modules via security hooks. >>>> >>>> So, SE-PostgreSQL is now implemented as a plugin module of pgsql. >>>> >>>> Anyway, the upcoming v9.1 shall provide a mechanism to assign >>>> security label of database objects and security hooks on various >>>> strategic points (but not comprehensive yet). >>> >>> Could you expand upon exactly what you mean here? Since this is not >>> 'comprehensive' does that imply potential vulnerabilities? >>> >> It means we are under construction of the security hooks, so some of >> actions (especially, permission checks on ddl statements) are not >> hooked by the plugin modules. In short, it is still vulnerable. >> >> These stuff must be implemented step-by-step, because burden of >> reviewers is not ignorable if we try to implement a complete >> feature at once. It is a target towards the v9.2 release. >> >> >>>> We will be able to assign security label using SECURITY LABEL >>>> statement in SQL (original enhancement of pgsql) by hand. >>>> It allows us to assign a certain label on a certain database >>>> objects. The given label is validated by plugin modules, then >>>> stored within system catalogs. >>>> In addition, post-object-creation hook enables to assign a default >>>> security label of the new database object on the creation time. >>>> >>>> Here are other new hooks; 'ExecutorCheckPerms' hook enables to >>>> make access control decision on DML statements (SELECT, UPDATE, >>>> INSERT and DELETE), 'ClientAuthentication' hook enables to >>>> obtain security label of the peer process using getpeercon(3) >>>> at beginning of the session, 'object_access' hook will enable >>>> to handle DDL permissions but not comprehensive yet. >>>> >>>> I expect a limited functionalities will be available in the >>>> v9.1 of PostgreSQL. It will be far from production level, >>>> but a great step towards the full features. >>>> >>>> The v9.1 will have feature freeze at the 15-Jun, then it may be >>>> released half years later. At the same time, merge window to the >>>> v9.2 will be open. So, I'll upstream rest of features; such as >>>> comprehensive DDL permissions, row-level access controls and so on. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> -- >>>> KaiGai Kohei<kaigai@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. >>>> If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with >>>> the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message. >>>> >>> >>> Ted >>> >> >> > > -- KaiGai Kohei <kaigai@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> -- This message was distributed to subscribers of the selinux mailing list. If you no longer wish to subscribe, send mail to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the words "unsubscribe selinux" without quotes as the message.
