On Tue, May 07, 2024 at 09:04:22PM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote: > On Tue, May 07, 2024 at 08:20:53PM -0700, Paul E. McKenney wrote: > > On Tue, May 07, 2024 at 05:08:54PM -0700, Sean Christopherson wrote: > > > On Tue, May 07, 2024, Sean Christopherson wrote: > > > > On Tue, May 07, 2024, Paul E. McKenney wrote: > > > > > On Tue, May 07, 2024 at 02:00:12PM -0700, Sean Christopherson wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, May 07, 2024, Paul E. McKenney wrote: > > > > > > > On Tue, May 07, 2024 at 10:55:54AM -0700, Sean Christopherson wrote: > > > > > > > > On Fri, May 03, 2024, Paul E. McKenney wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Fri, May 03, 2024 at 02:29:57PM -0700, Sean Christopherson wrote: > > > > > > > > > > So if we're comfortable relying on the 1 second timeout to guard against a > > > > > > > > > > misbehaving userspace, IMO we might as well fully rely on that guardrail. I.e. > > > > > > > > > > add a generic PF_xxx flag (or whatever flag location is most appropriate) to let > > > > > > > > > > userspace communicate to the kernel that it's a real-time task that spends the > > > > > > > > > > overwhelming majority of its time in userspace or guest context, i.e. should be > > > > > > > > > > given extra leniency with respect to rcuc if the task happens to be interrupted > > > > > > > > > > while it's in kernel context. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But if the task is executing in host kernel context for quite some time, > > > > > > > > > then the host kernel's RCU really does need to take evasive action. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Agreed, but what I'm saying is that RCU already has the mechanism to do so in the > > > > > > > > form of the 1 second timeout. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Plus RCU will force-enable that CPU's scheduler-clock tick after about > > > > > > > ten milliseconds of that CPU not being in a quiescent state, with > > > > > > > the time varying depending on the value of HZ and the number of CPUs. > > > > > > > After about ten seconds (halfway to the RCU CPU stall warning), it will > > > > > > > resched_cpu() that CPU every few milliseconds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And while KVM does not guarantee that it will immediately resume the guest after > > > > > > > > servicing the IRQ, neither does the existing userspace logic. E.g. I don't see > > > > > > > > anything that would prevent the kernel from preempting the interrupt task. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Similarly, the hypervisor could preempt a guest OS's RCU read-side > > > > > > > critical section or its preempt_disable() code. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or am I missing your point? > > > > > > > > > > > > I think you're missing my point? I'm talking specifically about host RCU, what > > > > > > is or isn't happening in the guest is completely out of scope. > > > > > > > > > > Ah, I was thinking of nested virtualization. > > > > > > > > > > > My overarching point is that the existing @user check in rcu_pending() is optimistic, > > > > > > in the sense that the CPU is _likely_ to quickly enter a quiescent state if @user > > > > > > is true, but it's not 100% guaranteed. And because it's not guaranteed, RCU has > > > > > > the aforementioned guardrails. > > > > > > > > > > You lost me on this one. > > > > > > > > > > The "user" argument to rcu_pending() comes from the context saved at > > > > > the time of the scheduling-clock interrupt. In other words, the CPU > > > > > really was executing in user mode (which is an RCU quiescent state) > > > > > when the interrupt arrived. > > > > > > > > > > And that suffices, 100% guaranteed. > > > > > > > > Ooh, that's where I'm off in the weeds. I was viewing @user as "this CPU will be > > > > quiescent", but it really means "this CPU _was_ quiescent". > > > > Exactly! > > > > > Hrm, I'm still confused though. That's rock solid for this check: > > > > > > /* Is the RCU core waiting for a quiescent state from this CPU? */ > > > > > > But I don't understand how it plays into the next three checks that can result in > > > rcuc being awakened. I suspect it's these checks that Leo and Marcelo are trying > > > squash, and these _do_ seem like they are NOT 100% guaranteed by the @user check. > > > > The short answer is that RCU is a state machine. These checks all > > indicate that there is something for that state machine to do, so > > rcu_core() (in the rcuc kthread in some configurations) is invoked to > > make the per-CPU portion of this state machine take a step. The state > > machine's state will reject a quiescent-state report that does not > > apply to the current grace period. It will also recognize the case > > where there is no quiescent-state report. > > > > > /* Does this CPU have callbacks ready to invoke? */ > > > > If callbacks are not offloaded, then the state machine is in charge of > > invoking them. > > > > > /* Has RCU gone idle with this CPU needing another grace period? */ > > > > If this CPU needs a grace period and there is currently on grace > > period in progress, the state machine will start a grace period. > > (Though grace periods can also be started from elsewhere.) > > > > > /* Have RCU grace period completed or started? */ > > > > If this CPU is not yet aware of a grace period's start or completion, > > the state machine takes care of it. > > > > This state machine has per-task, per-CPU, and global components. > > It optimizes to do its work locally. This means that the implementation > > of this state machine is distributed across quite a bit of code. > > You won't likely understand it by looking at only a small piece of it. > > You will instead need to go line-by-line through much of the contents > > of kernel/rcu, starting with kernel/rcu/tree.c. > > > > If you are interested, we have done quite a bit of work documenting it, > > please see here: > > > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GCdQC8SDbb54W1shjEXqGZ0Rq8a6kIeYutdSIajfpLA/edit?usp=sharing > > > > If you do get a chance to look it over, feedback is welcome! > > > > > > > The reason that it suffices is that other RCU code such as rcu_qs() and > > > > > rcu_note_context_switch() ensure that this CPU does not pay attention to > > > > > the user-argument-induced quiescent state unless this CPU had previously > > > > > acknowledged the current grace period. > > > > > > > > > > And if the CPU has previously acknowledged the current grace period, that > > > > > acknowledgement must have preceded the interrupt from user-mode execution. > > > > > Thus the prior quiescent state represented by that user-mode execution > > > > > applies to that previously acknowledged grace period. > > > > > > > > To confirm my own understanding: > > > > > > > > 1. Acknowledging the current grace period means any future rcu_read_lock() on > > > > the CPU will be accounted to the next grace period. > > > > More or less. Any uncertainty will cause RCU to err on the side of > > accounting that rcu_read_lock() to the current grace period. Why any > > uncertainty? Because certainty is exceedingly expensive in this game. > > See for example the video of my Kernel Recipes talk from last year. > > > > > > 2. A CPU can acknowledge a grace period without being quiescent. > > > > Yes, and either the beginning or the end of that grace period. > > (It clearly cannot acknowledge both without going quiescent at some > > point in between times, because otherwise that grace period could not > > be permitted to end.) > > > > > > 3. Userspace can't acknowledge a grace period, because it doesn't run kernel > > > > code (stating the obvious). > > > > Agreed. > > > > > > 4. All RCU read-side critical sections must complete before exiting to usersepace. > > > > Agreed. Any that try not to will hear from lockdep. > > > > > > And so if an IRQ interrupts userspace, and the CPU previously acknowledged grace > > > > period N, RCU can infer that grace period N elapsed on the CPU, because all > > > > "locks" held on grace period N are guaranteed to have been dropped. > > > > More precisely, previously noted the beginning of that grace period, > > but yes. > > > > > > > This is admittedly a bit indirect, but then again this is Linux-kernel > > > > > RCU that we are talking about. > > > > > > > > > > > And I'm arguing that, since the @user check isn't bombproof, there's no reason to > > > > > > try to harden against every possible edge case in an equivalent @guest check, > > > > > > because it's unnecessary for kernel safety, thanks to the guardrails. > > > > > > > > > > And the same argument above would also apply to an equivalent check for > > > > > execution in guest mode at the time of the interrupt. > > > > > > > > This is partly why I was off in the weeds. KVM cannot guarantee that the > > > > interrupt that leads to rcu_pending() actually interrupted the guest. And the > > > > original patch didn't help at all, because a time-based check doesn't come > > > > remotely close to the guarantees that the @user check provides. > > > > Nothing in the registers from the interrupted context permits that > > determination? > > > > > > > Please understand that I am not saying that we absolutely need an > > > > > additional check (you tell me!). > > > > > > > > Heh, I don't think I'm qualified to answer that question, at least not yet. > > > > Me, I would assume that we don't unless something says otherwise. One > > example of such a somthing is an RCU CPU stall warning. > > > > > > > But if we do need RCU to be more aggressive about treating guest execution as > > > > > an RCU quiescent state within the host, that additional check would be an > > > > > excellent way of making that happen. > > > > > > > > It's not clear to me that being more agressive is warranted. If my understanding > > > > of the existing @user check is correct, we _could_ achieve similar functionality > > > > for vCPU tasks by defining a rule that KVM must never enter an RCU critical section > > > > with PF_VCPU set and IRQs enabled, and then rcu_pending() could check PF_VCPU. > > > > On x86, this would be relatively straightforward (hack-a-patch below), but I've > > > > no idea what it would look like on other architectures. > > > > At first glance, this looks plausible. I would guess that a real patch > > would have to be architecture dependent, and that could simply involve > > a Kconfig option (perhaps something like CONFIG_RCU_SENSE_GUEST), so > > that the check you add to rcu_pending is conditioned on something like > > IS_ENABLED(CONFIG_RCU_SENSE_GUEST). > > > > There would also need to be a similar check in rcu_sched_clock_irq(), > > or maybe in rcu_flavor_sched_clock_irq(), to force a call to rcu_qs() > > in this situation. > > Never mind this last paragraph. It is clearly time for me to put down > the keyboard. :-/ But there is a real additional change to be made. If RCU is not watching, then tracing is disallowed, and all intervening functions must be either inlined or marked noinstr. This will likely be quite messy. Also, if RCU is to not be watching, why not just move the context-tracking transition? Thanx, Paul > > > > But the value added isn't entirely clear to me, probably because I'm still missing > > > > something. KVM will have *very* recently called __ct_user_exit(CONTEXT_GUEST) to > > > > note the transition from guest to host kernel. Why isn't that a sufficient hook > > > > for RCU to infer grace period completion? > > > > Agreed, unless we are sure we need the change, we should not make it. > > All I am going on is that I was sent a patch that looked to be intended to > > make RCU more aggressive about finding quiescent states from guest OSes. > > I suspect that some change like this might eventually be needed in the > > non-nohz_full case, something about a 2017 USENIX paper. > > > > But we should have hard evidence that we need a change before making one. > > And you are more likely to come across such evidence than am I. ;-) > > > > Thanx, Paul > > > > > > diff --git a/arch/x86/kvm/x86.c b/arch/x86/kvm/x86.c > > > > index 1a9e1e0c9f49..259b60adaad7 100644 > > > > --- a/arch/x86/kvm/x86.c > > > > +++ b/arch/x86/kvm/x86.c > > > > @@ -11301,6 +11301,11 @@ static int vcpu_enter_guest(struct kvm_vcpu *vcpu) > > > > if (vcpu->arch.guest_fpu.xfd_err) > > > > wrmsrl(MSR_IA32_XFD_ERR, 0); > > > > > > > > + RCU_LOCKDEP_WARN(lock_is_held(&rcu_bh_lock_map) || > > > > + lock_is_held(&rcu_lock_map) || > > > > + lock_is_held(&rcu_sched_lock_map), > > > > + "KVM in RCU read-side critical section with PF_VCPU set and IRQs enabled"); > > > > + > > > > /* > > > > * Consume any pending interrupts, including the possible source of > > > > * VM-Exit on SVM and any ticks that occur between VM-Exit and now. > > > > diff --git a/kernel/rcu/tree.c b/kernel/rcu/tree.c > > > > index b2bccfd37c38..cdb815105de4 100644 > > > > --- a/kernel/rcu/tree.c > > > > +++ b/kernel/rcu/tree.c > > > > @@ -3929,7 +3929,8 @@ static int rcu_pending(int user) > > > > return 1; > > > > > > > > /* Is this a nohz_full CPU in userspace or idle? (Ignore RCU if so.) */ > > > > - if ((user || rcu_is_cpu_rrupt_from_idle()) && rcu_nohz_full_cpu()) > > > > + if ((user || rcu_is_cpu_rrupt_from_idle() || (current->flags & PF_VCPU)) && > > > > + rcu_nohz_full_cpu()) > > > > return 0; > > > > > > > > /* Is the RCU core waiting for a quiescent state from this CPU? */ > > > > > > > >
