On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 05:16:27PM -0400, Phil Turmel wrote:
> Andreas' approach is rather expensive in practice
Not really. Currently all of my disks are out of their warranty period.
Whenever I bring this up the first thing I hear is that I'm just
not noticing these errors that are happening all the time... oh well.
I run SMART selftests daily (select,cont), I run mdadm checks and check
for mismatch_cnt afterwards (always 0 thus far). Not sure what else to
do... haven't gone as far as patching the kernel to be more verbose.
There's only so much you can do.
I'm mainly using cheap WD Green drives. I don't like enterprise drives,
there's nothing that makes them more reliable, and in a home use where
they twiddle their thumbs most of the time what's the point of it all?
Expensive drives are more likely to turn you into a penny-pincher
when replacement would be the right thing to do...
> manufacturers of consumer-grade drives specify an error rate of less
> than 1 per 10^14 bits read. That's only 12.5TB.
Yes, according to that math you get stuff like that:
http://www.zdnet.com/article/why-raid-5-stops-working-in-2009/
Or perhaps that just isn't how failures happen.
https://www.high-rely.com/blog/why-raid-5-stops-working-in-2009-not/
I'm sure there are better links on the topic.
If there actually was one failure for every 12.5TB, this technology
would be unusable. It's a LOT more reliable than that, thankfully.
So no, I don't replace my disks every 12.5TB. That'd be ridiculous.
Maybe you didn't mean it this way.
> Pending relocations are often just glitches that are gone after the
> sector is rewritten.
That's the other opinion I was referring to.
There's no way to tell what caused sectors to become unreadable.
Is it just a glitch in the matrix, never happen again once fixed?
Or is it a serious issue, likely to reoccur or get even worse.
Who knows? It's not like you can open it and check.
> a weekly or monthly "check" scrub will help flush them out
> in a timely fashion.
Our advice is not that different. You recommend regular checks.
I recommend regular checks.
I just don't believe in the "it will magically fix itself and
never happen again" kind of story. It's a trust issue, I just
can't bring myself to trust disks that have already lost data
once. Elsewhere people add checksums to filesystems because
they worry about single bit flips, not entire sectors gone...
how come one is completely fine but not the other.
(I'm not worried about bit flips, either.)
I see this timeout thing as a fad, it's brought up in every
other thread about raid failures on this list, regardless
how little / none indication there was that timeouts were
related in any way at all to the failure in question.
You'd think timeouts would solve all problems. They probably don't.
In some exceedingly rare cases, they might not even matter at all.
> Andreas' is flat-out wrong on this.
I say his raid failed due to not running checks,
running checks is something you recommend too.
There is some common ground there, however tiny.
> Not that I recommend running without the SMART features
That's the general gist I get from reading your posts, though.
> -- you will still want to know when your drives have real problems.
What's a real problem then, when pending sectors and read failures
in selftest are not real enough?
Some arbitrarily chosen number of errors...
Disks just go bad. You can make up whatever reasons to not replace them,
but whether your RAID will survive it, seems like a gamble to me.
Backups are a failsafe. I like the safe part, I try to avoid the fail.
Everyone has to find their own approach to things.
Regards
Andreas Klauer
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