HI, i did a dd_rescue which recovered a lot but not everything : # Rescue Logfile. Created by GNU ddrescue version 1.19 # Command line: ddrescue -d -f -r3 /dev/sdf1 wdc/9bececcb-d520-ca38-fd88-d9565718e361.dd wdc/9bececcb-d520-ca38-fd88-d9565718e361.mapfile # Start time: 2016-05-29 22:32:38 # Current time: 2016-05-29 23:04:49 # Finished # current_pos current_status 0x129F7DB6000 + # pos size status 0x00000000 0x1118E2AB200 + 0x1118E2AB200 0x00001000 - 0x1118E2AC200 0x00090000 + 0x1118E33C200 0x00001000 - 0x1118E33D200 0x00817000 + 0x1118EB54200 0x00001000 - 0x1118EB55200 0x0016B000 + 0x1118ECC0200 0x00001000 - 0x1118ECC1200 0x641976000 + 0x117D0637200 0x00001000 - 0x117D0638200 0x000FE000 + 0x117D0736200 0x00001000 - 0x117D0737200 0x000EC000 + 0x117D0823200 0x00001000 - 0x117D0824200 0x0010C000 + 0x117D0930200 0x00001000 - 0x117D0931200 0x0010C000 + 0x117D0A3D200 0x00001000 - 0x117D0A3E200 0x00375000 + 0x117D0DB3200 0x00001000 - 0x117D0DB4200 0x0010B000 + 0x117D0EBF200 0x00002000 - 0x117D0EC1200 0x0010C000 + 0x117D0FCD200 0x00001000 - 0x117D0FCE200 0x001EB000 + 0x117D11B9200 0x00001000 - 0x117D11BA200 0x00112000 + 0x117D12CC200 0x00001000 - 0x117D12CD200 0x00077000 + 0x117D1344200 0x00001000 - 0x117D1345200 0x000EB000 + 0x117D1430200 0x00001000 - 0x117D1431200 0x000FD000 + 0x117D152E200 0x00001000 - 0x117D152F200 0x0010C000 + 0x117D163B200 0x00001000 - 0x117D163C200 0x00251000 + 0x117D188D200 0x00002000 - 0x117D188F200 0x12264B3000 + 0x129F7D42200 0x00001000 - 0x129F7D43200 0x0004F000 + 0x129F7D92200 0x00001000 - 0x129F7D93200 0x00022000 + 0x129F7DB5200 0x00001000 - 0x129F7DB6200 0xA7C90DA200 + i don't know if i can recover more but i tried to reassemble the raid and it work but during the rebuilding the sdb1 failed again so my data are there but i'm not sure to know what to do to get them all. thanks On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 3:19 PM, bobzer <bobzer@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > hi, > > I'm afraid to make the problem worst but i received a new HD to do a > dd_rescue :-) > I'm ready to buy another HD but the problem is that i don't know > what's the best to recover my data > > My question is : There is a way to test if the data/raid is ok without > take the risk of losting anything more ? > > help me please :-( > > best regards > Mathieu > > On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 11:06 PM, bobzer <bobzer@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> thanks for your help. >> i took time to answer because unlucky me, the power supply of my >> laptop fried so no laptop and no way to work on my raid :-( >> any way i got a new one :-) >> >> for the dmesg i paste it here : http://pastebin.com/whUHs256 >> >> root@serveur:~# uname -a >> Linux serveur 3.2.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.2.63-2+deb7u1 x86_64 GNU/Linux >> root@serveur:~# mdadm -V >> mdadm - v3.3-78-gf43f5b3 - 02nd avril 2014 >> >> about zero the superblock on the wrong device, i hope i didn't do >> that, but also i really don't think i did that, because i took care >> and at that time the raid was working >> >> i don't know what to do, if i use dd_rescue and can't get back 100% of >> the data could i be able to start the raid anyway ? >> what are my risk if i try something like : >> mdadm --assemble --force /dev/md0 /dev/sd[bcde]1 >> >> thank you very much for your time >> Mathieu >> >> >> On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Robin Hill <robin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> On Tue May 10, 2016 at 11:28:31PM +0200, bobzer wrote: >>> >>>> hi everyone, >>>> >>>> I'm in panic mode :-( because i got a raid 5 with 4 disk but 2 removed >>>> yesterday i got a power outage which removed one disk. the disks >>>> sd[bcd]1 was ok and saying that sde1 is removed but sde1 said that >>>> everything is fine. >>>> so i stop the raid, zero the superblock of sde1, start the raid and >>>> add sde1 to the raid. then it start to reconstruct, i think it had >>>> time to finish before this problem (i'm not 100% sure that it finish >>>> but i think so) >>>> the data was accessible so i went to sleep >>>> today i discovered the raid in this state : >>>> >>>> root@serveur:/home/math# mdadm -D /dev/md0 >>>> /dev/md0: >>>> Version : 1.2 >>>> Creation Time : Sun Mar 4 22:49:14 2012 >>>> Raid Level : raid5 >>>> Array Size : 5860532352 (5589.04 GiB 6001.19 GB) >>>> Used Dev Size : 1953510784 (1863.01 GiB 2000.40 GB) >>>> Raid Devices : 4 >>>> Total Devices : 4 >>>> Persistence : Superblock is persistent >>>> >>>> Update Time : Fri May 6 17:44:02 2016 >>>> State : clean, FAILED >>>> Active Devices : 2 >>>> Working Devices : 3 >>>> Failed Devices : 1 >>>> Spare Devices : 1 >>>> >>>> Layout : left-symmetric >>>> Chunk Size : 128K >>>> >>>> Name : debian:0 >>>> UUID : bf3c605b:9699aa55:d45119a2:7ba58d56 >>>> Events : 892482 >>>> >>>> Number Major Minor RaidDevice State >>>> 3 8 33 0 active sync /dev/sdc1 >>>> 1 8 49 1 active sync /dev/sdd1 >>>> 4 0 0 4 removed >>>> 6 0 0 6 removed >>>> >>>> 4 8 17 - faulty /dev/sdb1 >>>> 5 8 65 - spare /dev/sde1 >>>> >>> So this reports /dev/sdb1 faulty and /dev/sde1 spare. That would >>> indicate that the rebuild hadn't finished. >>> >>>> root@serveur:/home/math# mdadm --examine /dev/sdb1 >>>> /dev/sdb1: >>>> Magic : a92b4efc >>>> Version : 1.2 >>>> Feature Map : 0x0 >>>> Array UUID : bf3c605b:9699aa55:d45119a2:7ba58d56 >>>> Name : debian:0 >>>> Creation Time : Sun Mar 4 22:49:14 2012 >>>> Raid Level : raid5 >>>> Raid Devices : 4 >>>> >>>> Avail Dev Size : 3907021954 (1863.01 GiB 2000.40 GB) >>>> Array Size : 5860532352 (5589.04 GiB 6001.19 GB) >>>> Used Dev Size : 3907021568 (1863.01 GiB 2000.40 GB) >>>> Data Offset : 2048 sectors >>>> Super Offset : 8 sectors >>>> Unused Space : before=1960 sectors, after=386 sectors >>>> State : clean >>>> Device UUID : 9bececcb:d520ca38:fd88d956:5718e361 >>>> >>>> Update Time : Fri May 6 02:07:00 2016 >>>> Bad Block Log : 512 entries available at offset 72 sectors >>>> Checksum : dc2a133a - correct >>>> Events : 892215 >>>> >>>> Layout : left-symmetric >>>> Chunk Size : 128K >>>> >>>> Device Role : Active device 2 >>>> Array State : AAAA ('A' == active, '.' == missing, 'R' == replacing) >>>> >>> We can see /dev/sdb1 has a lower event count than the others and also >>> that it indicates all the drives in the array were active when it was >>> last running. That would strongly suggest that it was not in the array >>> when /dev/sde1 was added to rebuild. The update time is also nearly 16 >>> hours earlier than that of the other drives. >>> >>>> root@serveur:/home/math# mdadm --examine /dev/sdc1 >>>> /dev/sdc1: >>>> Magic : a92b4efc >>>> Version : 1.2 >>>> Feature Map : 0x0 >>>> Array UUID : bf3c605b:9699aa55:d45119a2:7ba58d56 >>>> Name : debian:0 >>>> Creation Time : Sun Mar 4 22:49:14 2012 >>>> Raid Level : raid5 >>>> Raid Devices : 4 >>>> >>>> Avail Dev Size : 3907021954 (1863.01 GiB 2000.40 GB) >>>> Array Size : 5860532352 (5589.04 GiB 6001.19 GB) >>>> Used Dev Size : 3907021568 (1863.01 GiB 2000.40 GB) >>>> Data Offset : 2048 sectors >>>> Super Offset : 8 sectors >>>> Unused Space : before=1960 sectors, after=386 sectors >>>> State : clean >>>> Device UUID : 1ecaf51c:3289a902:7bb71a93:237c68e8 >>>> >>>> Update Time : Fri May 6 17:58:27 2016 >>>> Bad Block Log : 512 entries available at offset 72 sectors >>>> Checksum : b9d6aa84 - correct >>>> Events : 892484 >>>> >>>> Layout : left-symmetric >>>> Chunk Size : 128K >>>> >>>> Device Role : Active device 0 >>>> Array State : AA.. ('A' == active, '.' == missing, 'R' == replacing) >>>> >>>> root@serveur:/home/math# mdadm --examine /dev/sdd1 >>>> /dev/sdd1: >>>> Magic : a92b4efc >>>> Version : 1.2 >>>> Feature Map : 0x0 >>>> Array UUID : bf3c605b:9699aa55:d45119a2:7ba58d56 >>>> Name : debian:0 >>>> Creation Time : Sun Mar 4 22:49:14 2012 >>>> Raid Level : raid5 >>>> Raid Devices : 4 >>>> >>>> Avail Dev Size : 3907021954 (1863.01 GiB 2000.40 GB) >>>> Array Size : 5860532352 (5589.04 GiB 6001.19 GB) >>>> Used Dev Size : 3907021568 (1863.01 GiB 2000.40 GB) >>>> Data Offset : 2048 sectors >>>> Super Offset : 8 sectors >>>> Unused Space : before=0 sectors, after=386 sectors >>>> State : clean >>>> Device UUID : 406c4cb5:c188e4a9:7ed8be9f:14a49b16 >>>> >>>> Update Time : Fri May 6 17:58:27 2016 >>>> Bad Block Log : 512 entries available at offset 2032 sectors >>>> Checksum : 343f9cd0 - correct >>>> Events : 892484 >>>> >>>> Layout : left-symmetric >>>> Chunk Size : 128K >>>> >>>> Device Role : Active device 1 >>>> Array State : AA.. ('A' == active, '.' == missing, 'R' == replacing) >>>> >>> These two drives contain the same information. They indicate that they >>> were the only 2 running members in the array when they were last updated. >>> >>>> root@serveur:/home/math# mdadm --examine /dev/sde1 >>>> /dev/sde1: >>>> Magic : a92b4efc >>>> Version : 1.2 >>>> Feature Map : 0x8 >>>> Array UUID : bf3c605b:9699aa55:d45119a2:7ba58d56 >>>> Name : debian:0 >>>> Creation Time : Sun Mar 4 22:49:14 2012 >>>> Raid Level : raid5 >>>> Raid Devices : 4 >>>> >>>> Avail Dev Size : 3907025072 (1863.01 GiB 2000.40 GB) >>>> Array Size : 5860532352 (5589.04 GiB 6001.19 GB) >>>> Used Dev Size : 3907021568 (1863.01 GiB 2000.40 GB) >>>> Data Offset : 2048 sectors >>>> Super Offset : 8 sectors >>>> Unused Space : before=1960 sectors, after=3504 sectors >>>> State : clean >>>> Device UUID : f2e9c1ec:2852cf21:1a588581:b9f49a8b >>>> >>>> Update Time : Fri May 6 17:58:27 2016 >>>> Bad Block Log : 512 entries available at offset 72 sectors - bad >>>> blocks present. >>>> Checksum : 3a65b8bc - correct >>>> Events : 892484 >>>> >>>> Layout : left-symmetric >>>> Chunk Size : 128K >>>> >>>> Device Role : spare >>>> Array State : AA.. ('A' == active, '.' == missing, 'R' == replacing) >>>> >>> And finally /dev/sde1 shows as a spare, with the rest of the data >>> matching /dev/sdc1 and /dev/sde1. >>> >>>> PLEASE help me :-) i don't know what to do so i did nothing to not do >>>> any stupid things >>>> 1000 thank you >>>> >>>> ps i just saw this, i hope it not mak y case worst >>>> root@serveur:/home/math# cat /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf >>>> DEVICE /dev/sd[bcd]1 >>>> ARRAY /dev/md0 metadata=1.2 name=debian:0 >>>> UUID=bf3c605b:9699aa55:d45119a2:7ba58d56 >>>> >>> >>> From the data here, if looks to me as though /dev/sdb1 failed originally >>> (hence it thinks the array was complete). Either then /dev/sde1 also >>> failed, or you've proceeded to zero the superblock on the wrong drive. >>> You really need to look through the system logs and verify what happened >>> when and to what disk (if you rebooted at any point, the drive ordering >>> may have changed, so don't take for granted that the drive names are >>> consistent throughout). >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Robin >>> -- >>> ___ >>> ( ' } | Robin Hill <robin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> | >>> / / ) | Little Jim says .... | >>> // !! | "He fallen in de water !!" | On Fri, May 27, 2016 at 9:19 PM, bobzer <bobzer@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > hi, > > I'm afraid to make the problem worst but i received a new HD to do a > dd_rescue :-) > I'm ready to buy another HD but the problem is that i don't know > what's the best to recover my data > > My question is : There is a way to test if the data/raid is ok without > take the risk of losting anything more ? > > help me please :-( > > best regards > Mathieu > > On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 11:06 PM, bobzer <bobzer@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> thanks for your help. >> i took time to answer because unlucky me, the power supply of my >> laptop fried so no laptop and no way to work on my raid :-( >> any way i got a new one :-) >> >> for the dmesg i paste it here : http://pastebin.com/whUHs256 >> >> root@serveur:~# uname -a >> Linux serveur 3.2.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.2.63-2+deb7u1 x86_64 GNU/Linux >> root@serveur:~# mdadm -V >> mdadm - v3.3-78-gf43f5b3 - 02nd avril 2014 >> >> about zero the superblock on the wrong device, i hope i didn't do >> that, but also i really don't think i did that, because i took care >> and at that time the raid was working >> >> i don't know what to do, if i use dd_rescue and can't get back 100% of >> the data could i be able to start the raid anyway ? >> what are my risk if i try something like : >> mdadm --assemble --force /dev/md0 /dev/sd[bcde]1 >> >> thank you very much for your time >> Mathieu >> >> >> On Wed, May 11, 2016 at 3:15 PM, Robin Hill <robin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> On Tue May 10, 2016 at 11:28:31PM +0200, bobzer wrote: >>> >>>> hi everyone, >>>> >>>> I'm in panic mode :-( because i got a raid 5 with 4 disk but 2 removed >>>> yesterday i got a power outage which removed one disk. the disks >>>> sd[bcd]1 was ok and saying that sde1 is removed but sde1 said that >>>> everything is fine. >>>> so i stop the raid, zero the superblock of sde1, start the raid and >>>> add sde1 to the raid. then it start to reconstruct, i think it had >>>> time to finish before this problem (i'm not 100% sure that it finish >>>> but i think so) >>>> the data was accessible so i went to sleep >>>> today i discovered the raid in this state : >>>> >>>> root@serveur:/home/math# mdadm -D /dev/md0 >>>> /dev/md0: >>>> Version : 1.2 >>>> Creation Time : Sun Mar 4 22:49:14 2012 >>>> Raid Level : raid5 >>>> Array Size : 5860532352 (5589.04 GiB 6001.19 GB) >>>> Used Dev Size : 1953510784 (1863.01 GiB 2000.40 GB) >>>> Raid Devices : 4 >>>> Total Devices : 4 >>>> Persistence : Superblock is persistent >>>> >>>> Update Time : Fri May 6 17:44:02 2016 >>>> State : clean, FAILED >>>> Active Devices : 2 >>>> Working Devices : 3 >>>> Failed Devices : 1 >>>> Spare Devices : 1 >>>> >>>> Layout : left-symmetric >>>> Chunk Size : 128K >>>> >>>> Name : debian:0 >>>> UUID : bf3c605b:9699aa55:d45119a2:7ba58d56 >>>> Events : 892482 >>>> >>>> Number Major Minor RaidDevice State >>>> 3 8 33 0 active sync /dev/sdc1 >>>> 1 8 49 1 active sync /dev/sdd1 >>>> 4 0 0 4 removed >>>> 6 0 0 6 removed >>>> >>>> 4 8 17 - faulty /dev/sdb1 >>>> 5 8 65 - spare /dev/sde1 >>>> >>> So this reports /dev/sdb1 faulty and /dev/sde1 spare. That would >>> indicate that the rebuild hadn't finished. >>> >>>> root@serveur:/home/math# mdadm --examine /dev/sdb1 >>>> /dev/sdb1: >>>> Magic : a92b4efc >>>> Version : 1.2 >>>> Feature Map : 0x0 >>>> Array UUID : bf3c605b:9699aa55:d45119a2:7ba58d56 >>>> Name : debian:0 >>>> Creation Time : Sun Mar 4 22:49:14 2012 >>>> Raid Level : raid5 >>>> Raid Devices : 4 >>>> >>>> Avail Dev Size : 3907021954 (1863.01 GiB 2000.40 GB) >>>> Array Size : 5860532352 (5589.04 GiB 6001.19 GB) >>>> Used Dev Size : 3907021568 (1863.01 GiB 2000.40 GB) >>>> Data Offset : 2048 sectors >>>> Super Offset : 8 sectors >>>> Unused Space : before=1960 sectors, after=386 sectors >>>> State : clean >>>> Device UUID : 9bececcb:d520ca38:fd88d956:5718e361 >>>> >>>> Update Time : Fri May 6 02:07:00 2016 >>>> Bad Block Log : 512 entries available at offset 72 sectors >>>> Checksum : dc2a133a - correct >>>> Events : 892215 >>>> >>>> Layout : left-symmetric >>>> Chunk Size : 128K >>>> >>>> Device Role : Active device 2 >>>> Array State : AAAA ('A' == active, '.' == missing, 'R' == replacing) >>>> >>> We can see /dev/sdb1 has a lower event count than the others and also >>> that it indicates all the drives in the array were active when it was >>> last running. That would strongly suggest that it was not in the array >>> when /dev/sde1 was added to rebuild. The update time is also nearly 16 >>> hours earlier than that of the other drives. >>> >>>> root@serveur:/home/math# mdadm --examine /dev/sdc1 >>>> /dev/sdc1: >>>> Magic : a92b4efc >>>> Version : 1.2 >>>> Feature Map : 0x0 >>>> Array UUID : bf3c605b:9699aa55:d45119a2:7ba58d56 >>>> Name : debian:0 >>>> Creation Time : Sun Mar 4 22:49:14 2012 >>>> Raid Level : raid5 >>>> Raid Devices : 4 >>>> >>>> Avail Dev Size : 3907021954 (1863.01 GiB 2000.40 GB) >>>> Array Size : 5860532352 (5589.04 GiB 6001.19 GB) >>>> Used Dev Size : 3907021568 (1863.01 GiB 2000.40 GB) >>>> Data Offset : 2048 sectors >>>> Super Offset : 8 sectors >>>> Unused Space : before=1960 sectors, after=386 sectors >>>> State : clean >>>> Device UUID : 1ecaf51c:3289a902:7bb71a93:237c68e8 >>>> >>>> Update Time : Fri May 6 17:58:27 2016 >>>> Bad Block Log : 512 entries available at offset 72 sectors >>>> Checksum : b9d6aa84 - correct >>>> Events : 892484 >>>> >>>> Layout : left-symmetric >>>> Chunk Size : 128K >>>> >>>> Device Role : Active device 0 >>>> Array State : AA.. ('A' == active, '.' == missing, 'R' == replacing) >>>> >>>> root@serveur:/home/math# mdadm --examine /dev/sdd1 >>>> /dev/sdd1: >>>> Magic : a92b4efc >>>> Version : 1.2 >>>> Feature Map : 0x0 >>>> Array UUID : bf3c605b:9699aa55:d45119a2:7ba58d56 >>>> Name : debian:0 >>>> Creation Time : Sun Mar 4 22:49:14 2012 >>>> Raid Level : raid5 >>>> Raid Devices : 4 >>>> >>>> Avail Dev Size : 3907021954 (1863.01 GiB 2000.40 GB) >>>> Array Size : 5860532352 (5589.04 GiB 6001.19 GB) >>>> Used Dev Size : 3907021568 (1863.01 GiB 2000.40 GB) >>>> Data Offset : 2048 sectors >>>> Super Offset : 8 sectors >>>> Unused Space : before=0 sectors, after=386 sectors >>>> State : clean >>>> Device UUID : 406c4cb5:c188e4a9:7ed8be9f:14a49b16 >>>> >>>> Update Time : Fri May 6 17:58:27 2016 >>>> Bad Block Log : 512 entries available at offset 2032 sectors >>>> Checksum : 343f9cd0 - correct >>>> Events : 892484 >>>> >>>> Layout : left-symmetric >>>> Chunk Size : 128K >>>> >>>> Device Role : Active device 1 >>>> Array State : AA.. ('A' == active, '.' == missing, 'R' == replacing) >>>> >>> These two drives contain the same information. They indicate that they >>> were the only 2 running members in the array when they were last updated. >>> >>>> root@serveur:/home/math# mdadm --examine /dev/sde1 >>>> /dev/sde1: >>>> Magic : a92b4efc >>>> Version : 1.2 >>>> Feature Map : 0x8 >>>> Array UUID : bf3c605b:9699aa55:d45119a2:7ba58d56 >>>> Name : debian:0 >>>> Creation Time : Sun Mar 4 22:49:14 2012 >>>> Raid Level : raid5 >>>> Raid Devices : 4 >>>> >>>> Avail Dev Size : 3907025072 (1863.01 GiB 2000.40 GB) >>>> Array Size : 5860532352 (5589.04 GiB 6001.19 GB) >>>> Used Dev Size : 3907021568 (1863.01 GiB 2000.40 GB) >>>> Data Offset : 2048 sectors >>>> Super Offset : 8 sectors >>>> Unused Space : before=1960 sectors, after=3504 sectors >>>> State : clean >>>> Device UUID : f2e9c1ec:2852cf21:1a588581:b9f49a8b >>>> >>>> Update Time : Fri May 6 17:58:27 2016 >>>> Bad Block Log : 512 entries available at offset 72 sectors - bad >>>> blocks present. >>>> Checksum : 3a65b8bc - correct >>>> Events : 892484 >>>> >>>> Layout : left-symmetric >>>> Chunk Size : 128K >>>> >>>> Device Role : spare >>>> Array State : AA.. ('A' == active, '.' == missing, 'R' == replacing) >>>> >>> And finally /dev/sde1 shows as a spare, with the rest of the data >>> matching /dev/sdc1 and /dev/sde1. >>> >>>> PLEASE help me :-) i don't know what to do so i did nothing to not do >>>> any stupid things >>>> 1000 thank you >>>> >>>> ps i just saw this, i hope it not mak y case worst >>>> root@serveur:/home/math# cat /etc/mdadm/mdadm.conf >>>> DEVICE /dev/sd[bcd]1 >>>> ARRAY /dev/md0 metadata=1.2 name=debian:0 >>>> UUID=bf3c605b:9699aa55:d45119a2:7ba58d56 >>>> >>> >>> From the data here, if looks to me as though /dev/sdb1 failed originally >>> (hence it thinks the array was complete). Either then /dev/sde1 also >>> failed, or you've proceeded to zero the superblock on the wrong drive. >>> You really need to look through the system logs and verify what happened >>> when and to what disk (if you rebooted at any point, the drive ordering >>> may have changed, so don't take for granted that the drive names are >>> consistent throughout). >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Robin >>> -- >>> ___ >>> ( ' } | Robin Hill <robin@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> | >>> / / ) | Little Jim says .... | >>> // !! | "He fallen in de water !!" | -- To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-raid" in the body of a message to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx More majordomo info at http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
