2008/5/4 Tomas Carnecky <tom at dbservice.com>: > > Nikolai Beier wrote: > > 2008/5/4 Tomas Carnecky <tom at dbservice.com>: > >> Colin Guthrie wrote: > >> > Tomas Carnecky wrote: > >> >> Colin Guthrie wrote: > >> >>> I disagree that this community is unresponsive. You just have to be > >> >>> patient. Lennart is the main developer but he does not sit slavishly > >> >>> reading the mailing list and responding immediately. He'll usually have > >> >>> a big purge every couple weeks, but generally does respond to almost > >> >>> everyone who asks something, unless someone else has jumped in already. > >> >> PulseAudio + Wine is still a big no-no. Like described in my earlier > >> >> mail to this mailing list (sent 24.2.2008) I've come to a point where I > >> >> don't know any further and asked for help. Nobody answered. Not even to > >> >> the ticket in PA trac or the ticket in the alsa bugtracker. > >> >> > >> >> Ubuntu now ships with PA enabled by default, which causes big troubles > >> >> for those wanting to play games under Wine. I know the best solution > >> >> would be to have a native PA driver in Wine, but that won't happen > >> >> anytime soon. There are bugs in the pulse alsa driver. Fixing those > >> >> shouldn't be such big problem for someone familiar with the inner > >> >> workings of PA. > >> > > >> > What are the bugs in the pulse alsa plugin you refer to? There are some > >> > feature limitations but they are typically down to what any ioplug > >> > plugin is capable of. > >> > >> https://bugtrack.alsa-project.org/alsa-bug/view.php?id=2601 (see the > >> comments made by wereHamster, that's me). > >> > >> http://pulseaudio.org/ticket/198 > >> > >> > >> > When I last looked at the wine alsa layer it was *really* nasty. It > >> > didn't even open the "default" device, it would instead try to open > >> > "default:0".... I think it was cleaned up a bit, but it should be very > >> > simple for someone to rewrite it or write a direct pulse driver. The > >> > main wine folks don't use PA so don't really care about this. > >> > > >> > If there is something in pulse that can be fixed, it shoudl be reported, > >> > but as tonnes of apps out there work fine with pulse+alsa, I suspect > >> > strongly (and this is based on actually having a quick peak at the code > >> > a while back) that the problems lie at the wine end. > >> > >> There may be applications that work fine, but you only have to find a > >> single app that works with native alsa and fails with alsa-pulse > >> emulation to prove that there's a bug in your code. Wine is probably one > >> of the more complex users of the alsa API, and therefore exposing bugs > >> in alsa-pulse that other applications don't hit. > >> > >> I have patched the Wine alsa driver and the alsa-pulse plugin and sound > >> works for me, tested in World of Warcraft and foobar2000. The Wine patch > >> maybe isn't necessary. But the patch to alsa-pulse is required, see my > >> comments in the alsa bugtracker or the PA ticket. > > > > This case is a bit confusing. I have tried to look at the realted bug > > reports this morning. (nothing seemed to have happened since > > February). > > Yeah, because I posted all I know, my patches etc, and I've been waiting > for someone familiar with the inner workings of PA to comment on the > issues. As I said, sound in Wine works for me, but the patches I'm using > I consider hacks and not a real solution. > > > > There are mentioned two patches for Wine that should fix some of the > > problems, like the bad hard coded defaults on names for default > > devices and volume controls. (here: pulseaudio.org/ticket/198 and > > winehq.org/pipermail/wine-patches/2008-February/050561.html ). I > > wonder if they are included now? (Really a question for people working > > on the wine code) > > The first issue with the device names seems to be fixed. As of March 4, > 2008 Wine uses "default" instead of "default:0". The only patch to Wine > I'm using now is the one I posted to wine-patches. That one was not > merged into Wine - I haven't asked why. I'm not even sure it's > necessary. I'll test without my Wine patch to confirm that. But the > biggest problem seems to be the delay/latency computation in the > alsa-pulse plugin. > > > > What about Wines OSS and ESD output? If they work, it could be > > recommended to try these if alsa output does not work. > > I disabled OSS support in my kernel, so I can't test paoss. It might > work, but it would still be a workaround and not a real fix. > > > > Note that there are reported separate problems with DirectSound > > Where did you see that? Where can I read more about that? At http://www.pulseaudio.org/ticket/198#comment:7 (comment by "proyvind", apparently testet with a patch that fixes both the hardcoded volume control and the use of default:0 . And here: http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10910#c3 and http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10495#c4 and http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10495#c22 Oh, now I looked at the bug reports and got confused again. Is this the key points? (Ses below:) == Wine and the alsa plugin for PulseAudio (alsa pulse plugin) == PulseAudio normally takes control of the hardware through the device driver/ALSA. Thereby the hardware "device" in ALSA is blocked for other clients like Wine. Perhaps Winealsa (the output driver for ALSA) needs direct hardware access? Or it is/was just coded that way, but does not need to be. Or it was never a problem? Winealsa is now (may 4. 20008) fixed, so it uses the alsa device "default" instead of "default:0" (or like numbers), and does not require a volume control called PCM but uses the default volume control. Finally there are the delay problem(s). * "wereHamster" noted that the ALSA pulse plugin might set Wine in an endles loop. http://www.pulseaudio.org/ticket/198#comment:8 * Some have notices large delays (like one second), which is tracked back to some delay calculations in the ALSA pulse plugin. If a gamer wants lowest possible latency, and does not need any other app to play sound (like voice chats like "Teamspeak"), then they should use pasuspender. -- Nikolai Beier
