ok this worked, but man does it ever look clunky.. i want to thank every one who respond to me on & off list.. if you have other ways you would write the same snippet, please post it. would help me to get a feel for cleaner php. <?php if ($row_rsViewLinks['linksLink'] == NULL) echo $row_rsViewLinks['linksName']; else echo "<a href=\"{$row_rsViewLinks['linksLink']}\">{$row_rsViewLinks['linksName']}</a> " ?> sure oi will have some orderby / groupby questions in a few hours. thanks! -paul -- PHP Database Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php