> i recommend propel > http://www.propelorm.org/ Holy Moses that thing is a monster. It requires installing extra libraries (Phing) in order to create an XML schema reverse-engineered from my existing database. The code looks simple enough but that installation is brutal. Any other suggestions? I'm thinking of sticking with good ol' hand coding and a few helper classes. Marc -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php