I have no idea what I am doing - and I hate to think this message is actually going to be read by everyone in a general mailing list. But - since the attempt to reach a human 'owner' didn't work and the general-help doesn't yield results I may just have to conclude that this won't work, either. If the message does reach a 'live' audience, I apologize for my stupidity and hope that someone can see where I've gone astray. I don't have many options beyond taking instructions literally... John B. Moss -----Original Message----- From: PHP Lists Owner [mailto:no-reply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:45 AM To: jbmoss@xxxxxxxxx Subject: Reaching the PHP mailing list owners This is an automated response to your message to "php-general-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" If you are trying to post to one of the PHP mailing lists, the correct address looks something like php-general@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx If you are having problems unsubscribing, follow the directions located online at http://php.net/unsub Thanks! --- Your original email is below. Received: (qmail 32461 invoked by uid 1010); 31 Oct 2007 13:45:08 -0000 Delivered-To: ezmlm-scan-php-general-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Delivered-To: ezmlm-php-general-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Received: (qmail 32446 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2007 13:45:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 31 Oct 2007 13:45:08 -0000 Return-Path: <jbmoss@xxxxxxxxx> Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=jbmoss@xxxxxxxxx; sender-id=unknown Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=jbmoss@xxxxxxxxx; spf=permerror; sender-id=unknown Received-SPF: error (pb1.pair.com: domain addr1.com from 69.41.130.97 cause and error) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: jbmoss@xxxxxxxxx X-Host-Fingerprint: 69.41.130.97 mail.meadowcrk.com Windows 2000 SP4, XP SP1 Received: from [69.41.130.97] ([69.41.130.97:2877] helo=mail.meadowcrk.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id 80/32-20788-2E688274 for <php-general-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:45:07 -0500 Received: from JBMMachine [66.45.174.21] by mail.meadowcrk.com with ESMTP (SMTPD-9.21) id A6DD051C; Wed, 31 Oct 2007 06:45:01 -0700 From: "John Moss" <jbmoss@xxxxxxxxx> To: <php-general-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> References: <1193836524.26915.ezmlm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: RE: ezmlm response Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 06:44:45 -0700 Message-ID: <005601c81bc4$34400550$6401a8c0@JBMMachine> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0057_01C81B89.87E12D50" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-Index: AcgbwB3w3bfuOEYOQrmO4WAs/tT4XgAAHTKg In-Reply-To: <1193836524.26915.ezmlm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0057_01C81B89.87E12D50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello ~ I feel so stupid! I am trying to learn php, so am attempting to get involved with a php-related mailing list. The problem: I have no familiarity - none - with mailing list protocols. So - it seems simple - get on a mailing list, ask for help in getting through what I need to know, then participate as my need to know directs me. I find a mailing list related to php - I think. Seems right - "lists.php.net". I 'subscribe' (I think) to a 'General user list' which suggests "This is a really high volume general list for PHP users". I think this is what I want - but I have no idea what subscribing to it means, other than to suppose that I will get some emails from the group. I chose to get the 'Digest', as opposed to the 'Normal', list since I interpret this to mean I get 1 (or 2) mailings a day with many messages embedded, as opposed to many many messages all day long, all the time. Since I have no idea (and doubt) that I am interested in all of these, and since I want to pick and choose what I read, I'm guessing the 'Digest' suits my purpose. Problem: how to see what's actually involved, once I receive my subscription confirmation? It seems to me that a 'help' function is the answer, but - look below - when I send mail to php-general-help@xxxxxxxxxxxxx - I receive this message in response! Repeating the request means getting this response each time! Apart from feeling that this is insane, where do I turn? How do I find out what is on the list, begin receiving messages, and determine the protocol for participating? For folks who have been on mailing lists since the beginning of the web, this all seems foolish I'm sure. But if I can't take the suggestion for accessing help literally (why not?) it seems there should be a logical substitution argument that would apply. To explain: if in the example I am to replace 'lists.php.net' with something else, in order to get general help, what might that something else be? Where do I deduce the name/replacement value? Why don't the instructions for doing this exist? Why isn't there 'Help' for getting 'help'? I can read as well as the next person: "This is a generic help message. The message I received wasn't sent to any of my command addresses." What is meant by the term 'my command addresses'? I sent the message as explicitly directed. If the 'command address' is something which replaces 'lists.php.net' how am I to understand that, if directed to get help and a description of available commands from that address? I am attempting to send this message directly, but if this fails I will attempt the 'Forward:' technique, as explained also below. John B. Moss -----Original Message----- From: php-general-return-@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:php-general-return-@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:15 AM To: jbmoss@xxxxxxxxx Subject: ezmlm response Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the php-general@xxxxxxxxxxxxx mailing list. I'm working for my owner, who can be reached at php-general-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx This is a generic help message. The message I received wasn't sent to any of my command addresses. --- Administrative commands for the php-general list --- I can handle administrative requests automatically. Please do not send them to the list address! Instead, send your message to the correct command address: For help and a description of available commands, send a message to: <php-general-help@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To subscribe to the list, send a message to: <php-general-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To remove your address from the list, just send a message to the address in the ``List-Unsubscribe'' header of any list message. If you haven't changed addresses since subscribing, you can also send a message to: <php-general-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> or for the digest to: <php-general-digest-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> For addition or removal of addresses, I'll send a confirmation message to that address. When you receive it, simply reply to it to complete the transaction. If you need to get in touch with the human owner of this list, please send a message to: <php-general-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Please include a FORWARDED list message with ALL HEADERS intact to make it easier to help you. --- Enclosed is a copy of the request I received. Return-Path: <jbmoss@xxxxxxxxx> Received: (qmail 26907 invoked by uid 1010); 31 Oct 2007 13:15:24 -0000 Delivered-To: ezmlm-scan-php-general-help@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Delivered-To: ezmlm-php-general-help@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Received: (qmail 26892 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2007 13:15:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 31 Oct 2007 13:15:24 -0000 Return-Path: <jbmoss@xxxxxxxxx> Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com smtp.mail=jbmoss@xxxxxxxxx; spf=permerror; sender-id=unknown Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com header.from=jbmoss@xxxxxxxxx; sender-id=unknown Received-SPF: error (pb1.pair.com: domain addr1.com from 69.41.130.97 cause and error) X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: jbmoss@xxxxxxxxx X-Host-Fingerprint: 69.41.130.97 mail.meadowcrk.com Windows 2000 SP4, XP SP1 Received: from [69.41.130.97] ([69.41.130.97:2767] helo=mail.meadowcrk.com) by pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with ESMTP id 1E/51-20788-BEF78274 for <php-general-help@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:15:24 -0500 Received: from JBMMachine [66.45.174.21] by mail.meadowcrk.com with ESMTP (SMTPD-9.21) id AFE70C98; Wed, 31 Oct 2007 06:15:19 -0700 From: "John Moss" <jbmoss@xxxxxxxxx> To: <php-general-help@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 06:15:03 -0700 Message-ID: <004e01c81bc0$0dd34700$6401a8c0@JBMMachine> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004F_01C81B85.61746F00" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Thread-Index: AcgbwAwQFf/tqdBEQX2Elm9436hvkw== This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C81B85.61746F00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -------------------------------------------- My mailbox is spam-free with ChoiceMail, the leader in personal and corporate anti-spam solutions. Download your free copy of ChoiceMail from www.digiportal.com ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C81B85.61746F00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE id=3DridTitle>Blank</TITLE> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <STYLE><!-- body { font-family: Arial, Helvetica; font-size: 10pt; = color: #000000; margin-top: 25px; margin-left: 25px; } P.msoNormal, = LI.msoNormal { font-family: Helvetica, "Times New Roman"; font-size: = 10pt; margin-top: 0px; margin-left: 0px; color: "#ffffcc"; } --></STYLE> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16544" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY id=3DridBody background=3Dfile://C:\Downloads\JPGs\jbmsmsig.jpg> <P> </P> <DIV align=3Dleft valign=3D"middle"><FONT face=3D"Comic Sans MS"=20 color=3D#0000ff></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV><HR> My mailbox is spam-free with ChoiceMail, the leader in personal an= d corporate anti-spam solutions. Download your free copy of ChoiceMail f= rom <a href=3D"http://www.digiportal.com";>www.digiportal.com</a>.</BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_004F_01C81B85.61746F00-- -------------------------------------------- My mailbox is spam-free with ChoiceMail, the leader in personal and corporate anti-spam solutions. Download your free copy of ChoiceMail from www.digiportal.com ------=_NextPart_000_0057_01C81B89.87E12D50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"> <TITLE></TITLE> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16544" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY><!-- Converted from text/plain format --> <P><FONT size=3D2>Hello ~</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3D2>I feel so stupid! I am trying to learn php, so am = attempting to=20 get involved with a php-related mailing list. The problem: I have no = familiarity=20 - none - with mailing list protocols. So - it seems simple - get on a = mailing=20 list, ask for help in getting through what I need to know, then = participate as=20 my need to know directs me.<BR><BR>I find a mailing list related to php = - I=20 think. Seems right - "lists.php.net". I 'subscribe' (I think) to a = 'General user=20 list' which suggests "This is a really high volume general list for PHP = users".=20 I think this is what I want - but I have no idea what subscribing to it = means,=20 other than to suppose that I will get some emails from the group. I = chose to get=20 the 'Digest', as opposed to the 'Normal', list since I interpret this to = mean I=20 get 1 (or 2) mailings a day with many messages embedded, as opposed to = many many=20 messages all day long, all the time. Since I have no idea (and doubt) = that I am=20 interested in all of these, and since I want to pick and choose what I = read, I'm=20 guessing the 'Digest' suits my purpose.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3D2>Problem: how to see what's actually involved, once I = receive my=20 subscription confirmation? It seems to me that a 'help' function is the = answer,=20 but - look below - when I send mail to <A=20 href=3D"mailto:php-general-help@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>php-general-help@xxxxxxxxx= .net</A>=20 - I receive this message in response! Repeating the request means = getting this=20 response each time! Apart from feeling that this is insane, where do I = turn? How=20 do I find out what is on the list, begin receiving messages, and = determine the=20 protocol for participating?</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3D2>For folks who have been on mailing lists since the = beginning of=20 the web, this all seems foolish I'm sure. But if I can't take the = suggestion for=20 accessing help literally (why not?) it seems there should be a logical=20 substitution argument that would apply. To explain: if in the example I = am to=20 replace 'lists.php.net' with something else, in order to get general = help, what=20 might that something else be? Where do I deduce the name/replacement = value? Why=20 don't the instructions for doing this exist? Why isn't there 'Help' for = getting=20 'help'?</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3D2>I can read as well as the next person: "This is = a generic=20 help message. The message I received wasn't sent to any of my command=20 addresses." What is meant by the term 'my command addresses'? I sent the = message=20 as explicitly directed. If the 'command address' is something which = replaces=20 'lists.php.net' how am I to understand that, if directed to get help and = a=20 description of available commands from that address?<BR><BR><FONT = color=3D#000080=20 size=3D3><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I am attempting to send this = message directly,=20 but if this fails I will attempt the 'Forward:' technique, as explained = also=20 below.</FONT> </FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3D2>John B.=20 Moss<BR> <BR><BR>-----Original=20 Message-----<BR>From: php-general-return-@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [<A=20 href=3D"mailto:php-general-return-@xxxxxxxxxxxxx";>mailto:php-general-retu= rn-@xxxxxxxxxxxxx</A>]<BR>Sent:=20 Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:15 AM<BR>To: jbmoss@xxxxxxxxx<BR>Subject: = ezmlm=20 response<BR><BR>Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the=20 php-general@xxxxxxxxxxxxx mailing list.<BR><BR>I'm working for my owner, = who can=20 be reached at php-general-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR><BR>This is a generic = help=20 message. The message I received wasn't sent to any of my command=20 addresses.<BR><BR><BR>--- Administrative commands for the php-general = list=20 ---<BR><BR>I can handle administrative requests automatically. Please do = not=20 send them to the list address! Instead, send your message to the correct = command=20 address:<BR><BR>For help and a description of available commands, send a = message=20 to:<BR> <php-general-help@xxxxxxxxxxxxx><BR><BR>To = subscribe=20 to the list, send a message to:<BR> =20 <php-general-subscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxx><BR><BR>To remove your = address from=20 the list, just send a message to the address in the ``List-Unsubscribe'' = header=20 of any list message. If you haven't changed addresses since subscribing, = you can=20 also send a message to:<BR> =20 <php-general-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxx><BR><BR>or for the digest=20 to:<BR> =20 <php-general-digest-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxx><BR><BR>For addition = or=20 removal of addresses, I'll send a confirmation message to that address. = When you=20 receive it, simply reply to it to complete the transaction.<BR><BR>If = you need=20 to get in touch with the human owner of this list, please send a message = to:<BR><BR> =20 <php-general-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxx><BR><BR>Please include a = FORWARDED list=20 message with ALL HEADERS intact to make it easier to help = you.<BR><BR>---=20 Enclosed is a copy of the request I received.<BR><BR>Return-Path:=20 <jbmoss@xxxxxxxxx><BR>Received: (qmail 26907 invoked by uid 1010); = 31 Oct=20 2007 13:15:24 -0000<BR>Delivered-To:=20 ezmlm-scan-php-general-help@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Delivered-To:=20 ezmlm-php-general-help@xxxxxxxxxxxxx<BR>Received: (qmail 26892 invoked = from=20 network); 31 Oct 2007 13:15:24 -0000<BR>Received: from unknown (HELO=20 lists.php.net) (127.0.0.1)<BR> by localhost with SMTP; 31 Oct 2007 = 13:15:24 -0000<BR>Return-Path:=20 <jbmoss@xxxxxxxxx><BR>Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com=20 smtp.mail=3Djbmoss@xxxxxxxxx; spf=3Dpermerror;=20 sender-id=3Dunknown<BR>Authentication-Results: pb1.pair.com=20 header.from=3Djbmoss@xxxxxxxxx; sender-id=3Dunknown<BR>Received-SPF: = error=20 (pb1.pair.com: domain addr1.com from 69.41.130.97 cause and=20 error)<BR>X-PHP-List-Original-Sender: = jbmoss@xxxxxxxxx<BR>X-Host-Fingerprint:=20 69.41.130.97 mail.meadowcrk.com Windows 2000 SP4, XP SP1<BR>Received: = from=20 [69.41.130.97] ([69.41.130.97:2767]=20 helo=3Dmail.meadowcrk.com)<BR> = by=20 pb1.pair.com (ecelerity 2.1.1.9-wez r(12769M)) with=20 ESMTP<BR> id = 1E/51-20788-BEF78274 for=20 <php-general-help@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Wed, 31 Oct 2007 08:15:24=20 -0500<BR>Received: from JBMMachine [66.45.174.21] by mail.meadowcrk.com = with=20 ESMTP<BR> (SMTPD-9.21) id AFE70C98; Wed, 31 Oct 2007 06:15:19=20 -0700<BR>From: "John Moss" <jbmoss@xxxxxxxxx><BR>To:=20 <php-general-help@xxxxxxxxxxxxx><BR>Subject:<BR>Date: Wed, 31 Oct = 2007=20 06:15:03 -0700<BR>Message-ID:=20 <004e01c81bc0$0dd34700$6401a8c0@JBMMachine><BR>MIME-Version:=20 1.0<BR>Content-Type:=20 multipart/alternative;<BR> =20 boundary=3D"----=3D_NextPart_000_004F_01C81B85.61746F00"<BR>X-Mailer: = Microsoft=20 Office Outlook 11<BR>X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE=20 V6.00.2900.3198<BR>Thread-Index: = AcgbwAwQFf/tqdBEQX2Elm9436hvkw=3D=3D<BR><BR>This is=20 a multi-part message in MIME=20 format.<BR><BR>------=3D_NextPart_000_004F_01C81B85.61746F00<BR>Content-T= ype:=20 text/plain;<BR> =20 charset=3D"us-ascii"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20 7bit<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>--------------------------------------------<= BR>My=20 mailbox is spam-free with ChoiceMail, the leader in personal and = corporate=20 anti-spam solutions. Download your free copy of ChoiceMail from=20 www.digiportal.com = ------=3D_NextPart_000_004F_01C81B85.61746F00<BR>Content-Type:=20 text/html;<BR> =20 charset=3D"us-ascii"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding:=20 quoted-printable<BR><BR><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0=20 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD><TITLE=20 id=3D3DridTitle>Blank</TITLE> <META = http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type=20 content=3D3D"text/html; =3D = charset=3D3Dus-ascii"><BR><STYLE><!--=20 body { font-family: Arial, Helvetica; font-size: 10pt; = =3D<BR>color:=20 #000000; margin-top: 25px; margin-left: 25px; } P.msoNormal, =3D=20 LI.msoNormal { font-family: Helvetica, "Times New Roman"; = font-size: =3D=20 10pt; margin-top: 0px; margin-left: 0px; color: "#ffffcc"; }=20 --></STYLE><BR><BR><META content=3D3D"MSHTML = 6.00.6000.16544"=20 name=3D3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY id=3D3DridBody=20 background=3D3Dfile://C:\Downloads\JPGs\jbmsmsig.jpg><BR><P>&= ;nbsp;</P><BR><DIV=20 align=3D3Dleft valign=3D3D"middle"><FONT face=3D3D"Comic Sans = MS"=3D20=20 color=3D3D#0000ff></FONT></DIV>=20 <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><HR> My mailbox is spam-free with = ChoiceMail, the leader in personal an=3D d corporate anti-spam = solutions. Download=20 your free copy of ChoiceMail f=3D rom <a href=3D3D"<A=20 href=3D"http://www.digiportal.com";>http://www.digiportal.com</A>">www.= digiportal.com</a>.</BODY></HTML><BR><BR>------=3D_Next= Part_000_004F_01C81B85.61746F00--<BR><BR><BR></P></FONT><HR> My mailbox is spam-free with ChoiceMail, the leader in personal an= d corporate anti-spam solutions. Download your free copy of ChoiceMail f= rom <a href=3D"http://www.digiportal.com";>www.digiportal.com</a>.</BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0057_01C81B89.87E12D50-- -------------------------------------------- My mailbox is spam-free with ChoiceMail, the leader in personal and corporate anti-spam solutions. Download your free copy of ChoiceMail from www.digiportal.com -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
