Well reasoned and well said, Lea. You present a case with which I can't
argue. Even now that I slide into codger status, I do appreciate change
and evolution. It just never crossed my mind to apply that to
PhotoForum, that thing which has been a constant in my life for more
than 10 years. I will open my eyes and take another look at this
phenomenon. But, even after stating my mea culpa, I will say that I was
never against the Postcard Project. I thought the first one was a fine
idea and this one as well. I was just put off by the fact that the
Gallery has been suffering. Cest le vie. I do have one other gripe if
you will indulge me. We have far too many personal thank yous and chat
room messages now. Can we try to remember to make them interpersonal
email? Or am I being curmudgeonly to ask that? This is all said with
the best of intentions, even though I am not noted for tact, and an
appreciation for the work you do and your contributions. And I'm glad
you think we are funny instead of contemptible. That leaves room for
debate yet. Posts like Guy's and rebuttals like yours are things that
have been lacking on the list. I am glad to see it.
Don
lea murphy wrote:
Guy and Don,
I think you guys are funny.
Bitching and moaning about what the forum is not and may never be again.
I have been a member of this Forum since sometime around 1997 and have
seen many, many changes in the course of that time.
I've been a member here for 10 years ( Andy could verify that if he
chose to). In that time my life has changed radically, my work has
changed radically, the internet has changed radically, PHOTOGRAPHY has
changed radically. Hell, when I started on this Forum I was shooting
film. I haven't processed a roll of film in over 3 years and haven't
shot film for client work in over 6 years.
I think it's funny you worry and fret and complain about the postcard
project when the interest it generated so loudly speaks to the fact
that people WANT TO COMMUNICATE in a way that doesn't involve
keyboards and monitors. They want human contact...or as much of it as
you can get via a piece of mail. AND, the nerve, they want to do it
with THEIR PHOTOGRAPHS.
Some of us WORK for a living and sitting at our desks pondering this
photo question or that photo question, generating great discussion so
you can be entertained and Andy can feel valued and new members can
feel this is worthwhile is not possible given our daily duties.
I like a good debate as much as the next gal. Mostly, I like to take
photographs. I like to do my work. I like my clients to be pleased.
You try to guilt trip us, beat us, whip us, knock us into putting out
for the Forum. It isn't necessary. The Forum is what the Forum is...an
incredible resource filled with a wonderful group of people who come
and go. People leave for all kinds of reasons...being tired at the end
of the day and wanting to do something besides sit at a computer
typing into cyberspace might be one reason. Abusive fellow Forum
members might be another reason. Lack of interest might be another.
Family might be another. Work might be another. Taking photographs
might be another.
I am a member here because I feel I have something to give and because
when I need it, I know I can count on this group to help me out.
I'm not a member here to keep you entertained.
Lea
On May 6, 2007, at 6:38 AM, Don Roberts wrote:
Guy Glorieux wrote:
Dear fellow members,
Before covering the Gallery submissions this week - this should be
easy, since there are only three pictures, one of them being mine -
I want to express my outrage at what is currently happening with the
PF list. What...???? Only three pictures were submitted to the
Gallery this week. This has to be a joke! There was a time when it
could take two weeks or even more before my submission eventually
made it to the Gallery site.
What .. is .. going .. on ... ????
We find time to send postcards and discuss at nauseam the price and
quality of printing postcards here and there through the web when
these printing sites disappear by the dozen each week to be replaced
by new names... Is this what the famous PhotoForum list run by an
incredibly dedicated senior Faculty member of the world-respected
Rochester Institute of Technology is all about????? I just can't
believe it. Would I want to invite anyone of significance to join
the list at this moment? Would any Faculty member encourage their
students to do so? I don't think I need to write the answer!
Just look at the three postings on the Gallery this week:
- Marilyn Dalrymple - Green and Blue
Green and Blue indeed: that is the color of my face as I write
this. With due respect, Marilyn, allow me to shake you up: I have
seen your work over the years and recall the portfolio you showed us
whence you won your fellowship to the RPS. Did you need our help to
choose the pictures you submitted? Not a bit! Now, how do you
think this picture compares to your RSP portfolio? I hate to say
this (and you probably know it too) but this picture is confused,
with lines going in every which directions and there is no focal
point for the eye. You are a terrific photographer, Marilyn!
Never let your own critical judgement allow you to be satisfied
with this level of work.
- Pini Vollach - Street Shot Street shot... ??? ... Where is the
street? What is this picture about? I look at it and I see a
series of horizontal lines that have absolutely no meaning to me.
Are they prison bars? Railings? A closed garage door? Is this an
abstract shot? ... You, and only you, know. What is the
significance of this image? All I know about it is extraneous. A
scene shot in south Tel-Aviv. Does this tell me anything about the
situation there? About the feelings of the photographer? Pini,
with as much due respect as for Marilyn, I want to really shake you
up. You have shown much better work. This should never have gone
past your own critical sense. - Guy Glorieux - THE LOVERS
The Lovers... Waoooo! (and with big caps, at that...!!). Now we
are getting somewhere ... aren't we!!!?? What? A colour
photograph turned B&W with the computer (well, I happen to be the
only one who knows for sure because I did it). But it has been so
badly tortured with CS that is looks like one of these continuously
refurbished 80-year old millionnaire lady on the strips of some
resort beach. Is this all you've got to show, Mr Glorieux? Clap,
clap, clap! This is a failed attempt at turning a back-lighted
sun-drenched picture into a front-lighted, dramatic sky picture.
Dear fellow members, remember to keep this picture for your students
so that they can understand what never, ever, ever do with CS2. To
compound the situation, the photographer provides extended details
in the form of a long history course without ever/ever mentionning
the picture he is showing....!!??? Interesting details but quite
irrelevant to the subject of the PF list.
Now perhaps we should turn to those that have not shown any work
this week on the Gallery.
(The group is far too large, of course... The list below is only
indicative of what could have been seen on the Gallery. ):
- Herschel Mair - RPS Portfolio
A first-class collection of pictures which presumably was deemed
inappropriate for the PF Gallery by the photographer. Yet, he needs
the assistance of PF list members in selecting the pictures he
intends to submit to the Royal Photographic Society. Is this you,
Herschel????? What??? If you can be a winner and a teacher, why do
you need us to choose your portfolio. Only you can do it. I won't
give you any help, but I sure hope you show us the final portfolio
the moment you have been appointed a Fellow of the RPS...!
- Rich Mason - Was a frequent contributor, now comments on the
greenery of electronics..!! Nice...??
- Alan Zinn - When did I last see an AZ panoramic?
- Jeff Spirer - Where have you disappeared, Jeff?
- Dave Small - Comes and goes (mostly goes...)
- Jim Snarski - It was nice to see you last week, but where do you
keep hiding.
- Bob Talbot - Comes and goes (mostly goes)
- All those that have left the list - Where have they all gone?
- Those that have not submitted and are not mentionned should not
feel exonerated from this curse...
Dear friends, the PF list and the associated Gallery has slowly
turned into a Social PhotoClub! We are in grave danger of
disappearing. I have seen this process at work with one of the most
excellent grouping of photographers in Montreal (the Zoum Club).
The group has disappeared because its best members progressively
left and, at some point, the core of excellent photographers was
insufficient to keep the momentum. This is called the Grisham Law
in the field of economics (google search for more info) and it leads
to disaster. The story is that bad pictures chase good
photographers out of the list and at some point, the process becomes
irreversible. We are well into this process.
Folks, ask yourself this question: How long will Andy keep running
the PF if this is all that we can come up by way of visible work?
Remember: Andy disappeared earlier this winter for health reasons
and the list came to a virtual standstill. If we fail to revamp our
commitment, each and everyone of us, to
- posting truly excellent work on the gallery week after week; and
- generating discussion and debate around these images; and
- attracting once again new excellent members,
then I would'nt even put a single kopeck that this list will still
be around by the end of the year.
And then, what do we do? Search for a better group? Gooood luck!
Regards,
Guy Glorieux
Guy, I made a similar, although shorter, rant about the gallery, the
postcard project and the sweet, superficial nature of the list a
short while ago and was largely ignored or scorned for my view about
the importance and the nature of the PhotoForum. I hope you don't
suffer a similar fate. I totally agree with your stand obviously.
Don
lea murphy
www.leamurphy.com <http://www.leamurphy.com/>
www.whinydogpress.com <http://www.whinydogpress.com/>
blog: web.mac.com/leamurphy <http://web.mac.com/leamurphy>
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