The following post is a quote from another mailing list in response to issues being discussed about copyrights. BEGIN QUOTE: 1. Last night our associate Erica Galinski and I attended a discussion group principally composed of attorneys who represent large media and entertainment corporations. They brainstormed in all manners and ways to avoid paying people like you. They analyzed pragmatically and waxed quite elite on depriving people like you of their copyrights. They suggested that every step be taken in negotiations for photos and music in particular, to first denigrate and then obtain copyrights for little or no money. They opined that given the obvious disparity in the finances of artists vs. corporations, it is often better to use the image and then "see if you get caught" by the artist. The editor for the Ken Burns films Jazz and Baseball, stated that when they can't trace the creator and they really want to use the image, they use it and wait for a lawyer's letter which rarely comes. There were suggestions of broadening the concept of fair use to further insulate such activities. One of the leading attorneys in the field argued that creators "should not have the right to say no" to the unconsented reproduction of their works by others.\ Well financed lawyers and executives spend copious amounts of time and money seeking to grab your copyrights without paying you. Ignore such reality at your own risk. There are may highly paid corporate lawyers, few competant attorneys who represent artists. Corporations can afford lots of litigation. Can you? 2. It would be in MY financial interest to encourage deals which involved copyright transfer or assignment. More details means more negotiations means higher legal fees. My advice is given to serve the survival needs of photographers who make up approximately 50% of our practice. I have spent a considerable amount of non-billable time urging everyone to simply shut up. 3. Our clients have turned down seven figure offers for copyright assignment(s). Our clients routinely turn down $25 - 50,000 offers. I simply cannot account as to why you would be surprised at that. We have concurred with such positions. In 25 years of practice we have assigned or transferred a copyright on less than ten occasions and on each occasion a truly mega fee was involved. 4. Respectfully, when was the last time you met with attorneys, art buyers or executives when they discussed business and legal methods to be employed in screwing photographers out of their rights? We deal with these tactics daily. There are no art buyers, media lawyers or executives on EP who are "anti-photographer" who make contributions. They simply read and plot against you. Photographers rarely get into social or business situations where all the executives and lawyers relate their business strategies on how best to screw their contributors. Your belief that the "rights grab issue" is in essence overblown, would disappear if you only listened to the guys on the other side. Their tactics are no secret. They are instructed by corporate counsel and the IP departments to try to get all rights all the time. They make every effort to get copyright on the negotiating table. If you believe otherwise then they have already succeeded in getting you to speak their language on their terms. They believe photographers are docile, stupid and will do almost anything for a buck. Ask them over a beer or two and they will admit it. Bottom line, the independent photographer is rapidly become extinct. The more you entertain discussions of copyright assignment the sooner that day will come. The discussion was and is self-defeating. Those who represent photographers or are otherwise in the negotiating trenches know that this issue was better left alone. Since we have responded either off list or to EP (only) we will continue that practice we note you copied ASMP and APA. We will confine our response so as not to add more fuel to a fire which ought never have been started. Very truly yours, Edward Greenberg Greenberg & Reicher, LLP [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]" END QUOTE Take care, Gregory david Stempel FIREFRAMEi m a g i n g www.americanphotojournalist.com