On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 21:32:43 -0400, "Carlos Moreno" <moreno_pg@xxxxxxxxxxx> said: > CN wrote: > > Hi! > > "initdb" use SQL_ASCII as the default characterset encoding when it is > > not given option "-E" and when it can not correctly derive one from > > locale. I suggest "initdb" use UNICODE instead of SQL_ASCII because > > UNICODE is far more useful than SQL_ASCII. > > > > In addition to the general comment that the world does not necessarily > revolve around you, and that you should not expect all software products > in the world to be customized to suit *your* needs, I have to highlight > how horrifying this is: > > > Not all webmasters are willing to spend time reading "initdb" > > documentation. > This is truly horrifying --- well, fortunately, one could hope that it > is as wrong as the rest of your message; that dumb and lazy end users > and computer illiterate people are not willing to spend time reading > documentation or instructions is ok... But webmasters and database > administrators??? Do you *seriously* expect that some highly complex > software like a DB server should be handled by people who are not > willing to read documentation???? That's the most preposterous notion > I've read in the last few months! > > Another detail to add --- for a lot of people, Unicode is a useless > feature that has a very important performance hit. For a *very large* > fraction of applications, I see it generally advised to use a database > with no encoding (which SQL_ASCII essentially is), and in the situations > where some locale-aware processing is needed, then the client > application can do it. > > Of course, there are also many many applications where a DB with > Unicode encoding is very useful. In those cases, the administrators > can create a database with Unicode encoding (you seem to be one of > those that are too busy to be willing to spend time reading the > documentation of *createdb*), regardless of what default encoding was > specified with initdb. > > Oh, and BTW, welcome to version 8 of PostgreSQL ... The default > encoding for initdb is ..... Ta-daaaa!!! Unicode !!! > > Carlos Various people have various perceptions. I don't feel that my suggestion only serves to make PostgreSQL become a software product fitting only *myself*. On the contrary, I believe PostgreSQL will become suitable for more novice users if initdb will use UNICODE as the default characterset when it is not given option "-E" and when it can not correctly derive a characterset from locale. As I stated, not all webmasters or DBA's are advanced software administrators. I wonder there are many many webmasters and DBA's in the world try to setup their web sites and only use a mouse but never use their keyboards and read manuals. And I wonder this is one of the reasons making MyZql so popular - so much popular than PostgreSQL although it is far less powerful and has much less features than the latter. I have been using PostgreSQL since 6.5.x. I chose it because I noticed that PostgresSQL was the only open source DBMS that supports subquery and user defined functions that time. But how come MyZql becomes more popular than PostgreSQL today? I have my own answers to this: 1. "MyZql" is easier to pronounce and remember than "PostgreSQL". 2. MyZql rolled out MyZql.exe earlier than PostgreSQL. Answer 1 is a very important reason but I don't intend to talk about it here. I believe MyZql's success in terms of market share is largely contributed by its Windowz product. Why? Becasue many (and perhaps most) people started their businesses by using a mouse. They are obviously not advanced DBA nor experts at the begining. However, they felt they successfully got their jobs done only with a mouse! I feel PostgreSQL can also consider this marketing strategy: As it has always been providing andvanced features for andvanced users, but also first help novices, who knows only how to use a mouse, get their jobs done. Yes, UNICODE results in poorer performance than SQL_ASCII. However, this is not a problem at all because advanced users will use "-E" when they only needs SQL_ASCII. On the contrary, novices who actually needs UNICODE but get SQL_ASCII after PostgreSQL installation usually walk away and embrace MyZql which appears to be able to always help them setup their first web site with a few mouse clicks and with all the default values prompted by MyZql-install.exe. As in my unhappy experience, the webmaster must have used initdb without "-E" option to initialized his database cluster. He also used a cPanel which does not provide "-E" option for createdb. I posted a request to that site asking for providing "-E" option for createdb by his cPanel. That webmaster said that he can not program cPanel. Another user replied me by asking: "What don't you simply use MyZql?". The net result is that I left his site and reduced the total number of PostgreSQL users from his site. Regards, CN -- http://www.fastmail.fm - The way an email service should be ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not match
