I would tend to agree with Tom. A table is by definition an unordered set of records. Forcing keys to have meaning of this type implies that there is a relationship between each record in the set. That's information you should be storing as part of the record. If order is important, design the database so that it knows that order relationship exists. An ordered list is just a hierarchal database wherein every record has exactly one parent (or none if it's root) and exactly one child (or none if it's end leaf), but the relational model does a rather poor job of handling hierarchal relationships. You might consider the two-way linked list approach. That is, each record knows the item before it and the item after it, like so: TABLE mainTable { id serial PRIMARY KEY, foo text, bar integer, zen numeric } TABLE mainTableRelationships { parentID integer, childID integer, CONSTRAINT "mainTableRelationships_pkey" PRIMARY KEY ("parentID", "childID"), CONSTRAINT "parentID_key" UNIQUE ("parentID"), CONSTRAINT "childID_key" UNIQUE ("childID"), CONSTRAINT "mainTable_parentID_fkey" FOREIGN KEY ("parentID") REFERENCES "mainTable" ("id"), CONSTRAINT "mainTable_childID_fkey" FOREIGN KEY ("childID") REFERENCES "mainTable" ("id") } Of course, there's really little difference between doing things this way and ordering by the SERIAL field and numbering them appropriately on output, except that this above way is hideously more complex. Another option would be to create a temporary table ordered correctly, truncate the existing table, delete the sequence (or change the default on the primary key), copy the data back, and then re-create the sequence (or change default back to nextval) and then set nextval to MAX()+1. This is rather ugly, however, since you're still forcing the database to do relationships it doesn't know about, so you technically violate first normal form by having a multi-valued field (it identifies uniqueness and order). -- Brandon Aiken CS/IT Systems Engineer -----Original Message----- From: pgsql-general-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:pgsql-general-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tom Lane Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 7:31 PM To: Bob Pawley Cc: Ragnar; Postgresql Subject: Re: [GENERAL] serial column Bob Pawley <rjpawley@xxxxxxx> writes: > I am using the numbers to identify devices. > If a device is deleted or replaced with another type of device I want the > numbering to still be sequential. It sounds to me like you oughtn't be storing these numbers in the database at all. You just want to attach them at display time --- they are certainly utterly meaningless as keys if they can change at any moment. regards, tom lane ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings