Pete, I agree with you about websites containing lots of complex logic. It is an interesting excercise to extract out this logic from the day to day business of web app development. In any case, as I think more about various if/else claues or business specific computations, I get even more convinced that either many of our daily routines can be abstracted away, or partitioned (I guess the way the MVC model keeps people like me from putting everything together in a complex mess). It is interesting that much of the software packages specifically marketed for 'business logic' (various rules engines) are, at their most fundamental, not very different from relational DBs. I am also fairly certain that whole programming languages (their semantics and their syntax) can be defined within relational DBs. So why not attempt to use databases as more than just data stores? P.S. I actually don't think the kind of framework I am looking for exists (oracle has html db, but I haven't been able to study it yet). And I should add that I realize theoretical Relational Dbs are different from modern implementations, but we still have a base to work on.